### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/61 "2013-01-03T18:09:59Z")
> [@Hermione](#):
>
> You know, there was an old poem in some collection I read once. It may have been written in the early twentieth century, but it’s called “How Big Was Alexander?” It was a dialogue between a father and a son.
>
> To sum it up:
>
> Son: If Alexander was called “The Great,” then how big was he, Dad?
>
> \
Huh. Never read that one before. Thanks for introducing me to it.
[Here it is, btw.](http://wonder.riverwillow.com.au/home_education/history_in_verse_1.htm#alexander)
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/62 "2013-01-03T18:19:37Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Like, awful and awesome used to mean the same thing. Causing awe.
“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are _bad.”_
– _Lords and Ladies,_ Terry Pratchett
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### Author:  [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/63 "2013-01-03T20:03:39Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#):
>
> Does the general public believe that Alexander the Great was good or bad?
The general public believes he was a swell guy and those people needed killing anyways.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/64 "2013-01-03T20:10:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Alexander the Greater. (Who will, in turn, be surpassed by Alexander the Greatest.)
[Alexander the Greater](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0641059/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1), from season 2 of The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/65 "2013-01-03T20:17:04Z")
_“King Phillips?”_
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### Author:  [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/66 "2013-01-03T20:18:55Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> WTF? Were you there? I’m not being snarky, I really want to know! It sounds like you saw that in person! If so, I must say this is the longest delay between event and personal pitting I’ve ever seen! :eek:
No, we’re learning about him in World History and they mentioned that he walked around with a really huge hat that showed his (over)confidence.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/67 "2013-01-03T20:25:45Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#):
>
> No, we’re learning about him in World History and they mentioned that he walked around with a really huge hat that showed his (over)confidence.
Guy who invaded tons of countries and killed thousands gets Pitted for wearing a hat. **smiling bandit** , I think you have your answer.
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### Author:  [@KRC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KRC)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/68 "2013-01-03T20:37:53Z")
Forget dumb Ol’ Al. Just put the ringnecks on the bubble gum cards.
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### Author:  [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/69 "2013-01-03T20:44:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Guy who invaded tons of countries and killed thousands gets Pitted for wearing a hat. **smiling bandit** , I think you have your answer.
Way to assume things that are not correct.
Him wearing a big hat like that was a very minor [ **supporting** fact. Remember the main reason I’m pitting him is because of his selfish behavior. He killed a part of his family, hundreds of thousands (today I found out that he took out a 100,000 Persians and this was only one his _many_ killings) just so he could rule “the world” (that’s how he thought of it) and be in power.
He also wasted tons of time doing pointless things to show off how confident he was. I mean, he did kill people mercilessly just to gain power. But he did a lot of other killings just to show how good he is. He took a pointless 1,000 mile trip for no other reason than to show how good he is. Then, King Darius III even offered him the hand of his daughter for marriage (and a lot of other cool offers); he could have lived happily ever after with his wife (and I believe he would also get to rule all of Persia), but no. Instead of that, he wasted his time killing 100,000 Persians!
Basically, he was just trying to take over the whole world with tons of merciless killing, and cocky behavior. He wanted to show that nothing could get in his way and that he should be feared. Now isn’t this just selfish behavior?
You think I’m only pitting him for the hat? No! That was just a supporting fact to show you how overconfident he was because that hat could be seen by a lot of people and it was risky for him to walk around like that as he could have gotten killed.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/70 "2013-01-03T20:55:40Z")
Is this your first time studying ancient history? Because, aside from the rarity of his kind of effectiveness at it, killing and conquering was hardly something Alexander was unique in doing. Those Persians you’re mired in sympathy for were pretty darn good at it themselves. As a matter of fact, they had their own [Great](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_I), who wasn’t all THAT far behind ol’ Al for his time.
ETA: A couple of [Greats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great) of their own, actually. And again, Cyrus was just as expansionist as Alexander.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/71 "2013-01-03T20:58:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> Those Persians you’re mired in sympathy for were pretty darn good at it themselves. As a matter of fact, they had their own [Great](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_I), who wasn’t all THAT far behind ol’ Al for his time.
[Two of their own](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great#Rise_and_military_campaigns), in fact.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/72 "2013-01-03T21:01:06Z")
Ninjaed on the edit! :eek:
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/73 "2013-01-03T21:02:07Z")
My two cents, I try to never judge the actions of someone out of context. What you and I might perceive as despicable behavior in our time may not have been the norm or looked upon similarly during theirs. War and conquest and even fratricide were more common and in some cases the only means of survival for some in history. Alexander was better at it than most anyone else, so that’s the context I’d choose to view him in.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/74 "2013-01-03T21:06:38Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#):
>
> Way to assume things that are not correct.
I think you forgot to finish this with “…NOT!!!”
> [@](#):
>
> You think I’m only pitting him for the hat? No!
This is so dumb that it’s hard for me to figure out what you’re thinking. But yes, you’re mostly Pitting the guy for being arrogant. He’s been dead for 2300 years, and even if he was smug, maybe you should familiarize yourself with that old saying “It ain’t bragging if you can do it.”
---
### Author:  [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/75 "2013-01-03T21:54:46Z")
[Chevy Chase]Alexander the Great is still dead.[/Chevy Chase]
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### Author:  [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/76 "2013-01-03T21:59:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> I think you forgot to finish this with “…NOT!!!”
>
> This is so dumb that it’s hard for me to figure out what you’re thinking. But yes, you’re mostly Pitting the guy for being arrogant. He’s been dead for 2300 years, and even if he was smug, maybe you should familiarize yourself with that old saying “It ain’t bragging if you can do it.”
Yes, I am pitting him for being arrogant, so is that not a good enough reason? Maybe not by itself, but remember I’m also pitting him for being selfish. Remember, the other reason he did this whole thing was power and rule.
And the other problem was the level of arrogance and selfishness he demonstrated. So you think pitting Alexander the Great for being exceptionally arrogant and selfish is a bad reason to pit someone? Okay, maybe there are a lot of people like that, but not ones who killed 100,000’s of people due to their arrogance and selfishness. That’s just out of hand. You have to realize how many that is for a person to kill. I don’t even make that many steps in a week. An active person makes about 10,000 steps a day. I don’t know what was in Alexander’s mind except for, “I’m the best,” and “I will rule.”
And maybe you should not believe every saying you encounter. Not all sayings are correct. “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me,” is also a saying. Now that’s not correct. Similarly, the saying you “cited” is not correct either. So okay, I play violin well. I don’t go out and cockily tell or show people, “Oh look how good I am.” Well, I’m not _that_ good, but even if I was, I wouldn’t do that. Just because you can do it, doesn’t mean it’s not, “Saying in a boastful manner” (the definition of bragging). Do you brag if you can do “it”? Just saying, even bringing up that saying made very little sense and was an illogical argument to base how others should/can act based on a saying. Like I said, there are many sayings; not all of them are true.
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### Author:  [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/77 "2013-01-03T22:15:02Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#):
>
> Everybody _knows_ the whole point was to untie it, but Alex just pulled out his switchblade and sliced it through, as if that’s an accomplishment! And all those people who should know better say he’s wise for “thinking outside the box”, when he was really just a lazy vandal.
Mishegoss. Vandals were Germanic.
The Phyrgians were pretty pissed at Al, but they had to admit he shouted, “It’s coming right for us!” before he cut it, so they had no basis to prosecute him for unlawful killing.
Just littering and creating a nuisance.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/78 "2013-01-03T22:16:53Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#):
>
> So you think pitting Alexander the Great for being exceptionally arrogant and selfish is a bad reason to pit someone?
Not “bad” so much as stupid since he’s been dead for 2300 years. Who cares that he was arrogant and selfish at this point? As others have pointed out, it’s doubtful that he was any worse than similar people of his era. More successful at the conquering thing, maybe.
> [@](#):
>
> Okay, maybe there are a lot of people like that, but not ones who killed 100,000’s of people due to their arrogance and selfishness.
There have been a lot of people like that throughout history, in fact.
> [@](#):
>
> That’s just out of hand. You have to realize how many that is for a person to kill. I don’t even make that many steps in a week.
I think you’re in desperate need of a sense of humor. You are coming close to unintentionally repeating an Eddie Izzard standup routine here (and to mix and match, you sound like Karl Pilkington). When your sincere opinions are indistinguishable from stuff other people are doing in comedy, you need to find a new perspective.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/79 "2013-01-03T22:24:49Z")
“Baklava or death?”
“I’ll take the baklava.”
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### Author:  [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-the-great-is-not-great/645886/80 "2013-01-03T22:28:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Not “bad” so much as stupid since he’s been dead for 2300 years. Who cares that he was arrogant and selfish at this point? As others have pointed out, it’s doubtful that he was any worse than similar people of his era. More successful at the conquering thing, maybe.
>
> There have been a lot of people like that throughout history, in fact.
>
> I think you’re in desperate need of a sense of humor. You are coming close to unintentionally repeating an Eddie Izzard standup routine here (and to mix and match, you sound like Karl Pilkington). When your sincere opinions are indistinguishable from stuff other people are doing in comedy, you need to find a new perspective.
I don’t even understand your last point about needing a “sense of humor”. If you can reword and explain what you’re trying to tell me there, then I can give you a valuable response.
We are actually going to do a silent debate and write an essay in class about why or why don’t you think “Alexander the Great” deserves “the Great” after is name. He split up the class and I’m on the “Not Great” side. But I quickly found that my opinion fits the role I’m playing. Now come to think of it, I really don’t think Alexander the Great (the “D\*uche”) was great. So I decided to start a pit thread about my opinions (rants) about him. He is still worth ranting about though even though he may be very long gone.
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