# Alexander-WTF happened to Oliver Stone?(Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 22, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400 "2005-10-22T05:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/21 "2005-10-22T19:23:44Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Frankly, I was a bit skeptical of the part where Alexander triumphs over the Mongolian skeleton leader, Genghis von Zipper, at the Big Atlantis Surf-Off. I’m pretty sure that never really happened. :rolleyes: So there _probably_ wasn’t really a chorus of sea-horses playing “Wipe-Out”, with a sperm-whale on the drum solo. It’s called artistic license. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/22 "2005-10-22T19:59:43Z")
The film was so hard to squirm through. Every time I saw Alexander all I could think was, “ew. Cindy Brady, all grown up, and apparently in need of a little hormone replacement therapy.” I never really got much of a gay subtext. It was more just two really femmy guys, wearing too much mascara, and sorta making eyes at each other once in awhile. I had no sympathy for any of the characters. I did have a little sympathy for Colin Farrell, the actor. He acted like he _knew_ how ridiculous he looked. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/23 "2005-10-22T21:19:15Z")
With a _Wild Wild West_ or an _Attack of the Clones_ or a _Battlefield Earth_, your mind can at least push through the suckiness and see some way by which some halfway-reasonable studio exec might have thought that producing such a movie was a slightly defensible idea. Not so with _Alexander_. What the hell were they thinking? What was up with that scene in the temple in India that went on for half an hour with nothing happening? And the flashback scenes. Oh god, the flashback scenes! Yargghhhh. After seeing that movie, I avoided theatres entirely until _Kung Fu Hustle_ was released almost six months later. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/24 "2005-10-22T21:31:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I never really got much of a gay subtext. It was more just two really femmy guys, wearing too much mascara, and sorta making eyes at each other once in awhile. > . When his wife walked in on him recieving the ring and she gave him that look, I said “How could you not know? He had subscriptions to martha stewart living all over the place. He talked about lamps. He had two efemminate guys hanging around him all the time. Do the math” ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/25 "2005-10-22T23:30:53Z")
I don’t know how I got through this movie. Absolutely every scene in it dragged on until I didn’t think it could drag on any further, and then it dragged some more. Dull, dull, dull. It could have been so much better than this. Stone had certainly done some preferable work in the past. Hey, it’s good for curing insomnia, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/26 "2005-10-23T00:15:13Z")
I saw the DVD “director’s cut” where Stone shortened it, and I’d give it a B minus. Other than the weird obession with the king being a man of the people and about freedom, it was not a historical monstrosity, but that alone made me dislike it. I think if someone is going to remake a historically based epic or piece of literature, like Alexander or Troy, one should could at least justify it by presenting something accurate to the source material. The flaws with Stone’s Alexander were the freedom politics and that Stone made one of history’s most exciting conqueror pretty boring. As for Troy, well, sorry, Menalaus and Agammemon both made it home resulting in more interesting drama. And what was the deal with the gods in Troy? Achilles’ is presented as the son of a goddess, as in the Illiad, but no other God meddles in the story? And Eric Bana did a fine job as Hector, but he was hardly fearsome. Couldn’t they have made him appear bigger through camera tricks? I thought Peter O’Toole as Priam captured a spirit and fatalism true to Homer that the rest of the cast (except Brian Cox) missed entirely. Oh, and I did like the lovely lady who played Helen. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/27 "2005-10-23T01:21:02Z")
I once again have to give Hollywood marks for making some bizarre accent choices in the film - Alexander - Irish (even as a child), various other european accents, and Angelina - some strange almost russian sounding accent. I did not know anything about the history of Alexander the Great before I rented this movie, except the fact that I assumed if he was “Great” there would have to be some pretty cool battle sequences. I had also heard about the homesexual angle, which didn’t bother me. What bothered me was that the whole movie seemed to focus on that (and only that). That was it, in a nutshell. I never turn off movies, unless I find them extremely disturbing, but never for being stupid. I even finished watching _Cool World_ for pete’s sake (hey, I paid for the damn thing I was going to watch it). I turned off Alexander. I was just fed up. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/28 "2005-10-23T01:25:23Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > and Angelina - some strange almost russian sounding accent. Oh, yeah. I had forgotten that part. Was she trying to sound like Count Dracula or something? Too weird. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/29 "2005-10-23T04:25:33Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > A month or two back I was in the video store trying > I don’t see this at all. They seem like two completely different types of movies. I liked both, _M+C_ somewhat more than _Braveheart_. > > I know _M+C_ disappointed a lot of people who were expecting more of an action movie but I found it to be surprisingly character driven. _Braveheart_ on the other hand was a pull-out-all-the-stops historical action epic (and yes, I know much of the history was wrong but I assumed as much as I was watching it). > > I guess one of the most obvious differences for me is that Wallace in _Braveheart_ is practically Superman…for a while he is pretty much invincible both militarily and physically. He is always in the right place at the right time to get the drop on his enemies (at least for most of the movie). > > Aubrey in _M+C_ isn’t even close to invincible, in fact he repeatedly makes mistakes and gets caught with his guard down, and his men take a beating because of it. It’s only at the end they finally get the drop on the bad guys. You said it better than I. Personally, I consider Master and Commander as one of my favorite movies. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/30 "2005-10-23T05:12:02Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Oh, yeah. I had forgotten that part. Was she trying to sound like Count Dracula or something? Too weird. That’s what I was wondering. They’re all supposed to be greek. Why the wierd accent from her? Actually, Farell didn’t even sound Irish. He hasn’t sounded Irish to me in any movie I’ve seen him in. Maybe he just has a very subdued accent? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/31 "2005-10-23T08:14:00Z")
Gee, I liked it. Sure, the “freedom” stuff was anachronisitic, but didn’t ruin it for me. I thought the gay angle was underplayed and there was too much hetero sex. I was happy that it wasn’t a mindless action movie, with wall-to-wall battle scenes. It also wasn’t a worshipful hagiography like _Braveheart_. I also like that itwas actually about Ptolemy’s memories of Alexander-- an old man trying to explain a great man he once knew, bur never really undrerstood. In this way it reminded me of Gore Vidal’s \*Julian \* (a shame Vidal didn’t collaborate with Stone on this). But then, I also liked _KIngdom of Heaven_. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/32 "2005-10-23T14:39:52Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > That’s what I was wondering. They’re all supposed to be greek. Why the wierd accent from her? Olympia wasn’t a Macedonian. She was from Illyria (or Thrace, I can’t remember which). I think the movie was trying to point out that she was a foreigner. The movie just sucked. What I kept getting destracted by was Colin Farrell’s horrible blond wig. Some brown-haired people can convincingly be made to look blond. Mr. Farrell is not one of them. It was especially annoying because the most famous [picture](http://www.livius.org/a/1/greeks/alexander_mosaic2.jpg) of Alex shows him with brown hair anyway. I also hated the treatment of Hephaistion. Hey Oliver! Gay lover doesn’t have to equal womanish wimp with long, flowing hair and mascara! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/33 "2005-10-23T17:04:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You said it better than I. Personally, I consider Master and Commander as one of my favorite movies. Mine, too. And shame on me, I’ve only seen it nine times so far. * * * I’ll echo the sentiment re: Farrell’s blond wig as a distraction. And I swear I heard some Irish as well. It just didn’t mesh with the character he purported to be playing in **Alexander**. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/34 "2005-10-23T17:12:22Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > I thought the gay angle was underplayed and there was too much hetero sex. I agree with you that the sex scene was complete gratutious, and the subtext seems to be “Rape is Sexy”, but i do wonder how the gay angle can be underplayed when it takes up half the movie, or so it seems. This wasn’t THE HOURS, which was entirely about the gay angle, but it was supposed to be about a guy who conquered the known world(apparently). Okay, we get it, Alexander, you’re gay. Now that we’ve firmly established that point, can we move onto something else? I would have liked to see more of that. I don’t need to see battle after battle after battle, but something more then what we were given. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/35 "2005-10-23T17:14:20Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > Olympia wasn’t a Macedonian. She was from Illyria (or Thrace, I can’t remember which). I think the movie was trying to point out that she was a foreigner. Sounded like she was from Pottsylvania. I saw trouble when Anthony Hopkins appeared. The most dependable turd-polisher working in movies today. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/36 "2005-10-23T17:35:56Z")
Mentioning Troy, Sean Bean also had a few excellent scenes as Odysseus, and lived up to his legendary craftiness. Sadly, he didn’t get much screentime. Similarly, I rather liked Kilmer’s role in Alexander. He came acros very convincingly as a man who was a loudmouthed braggart, yet also did care deeply about his child and his child’s future. And as a man whom others could follow to war, even if he wasn’t cultured. Frankly, I would have strangled Alexander’s mother with her own socks. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/37 "2005-10-23T18:22:46Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > Olympia wasn’t a Macedonian. She was from Illyria (or Thrace, I can’t remember which). I think the movie was trying to point out that she was a foreigner. She was from the kingdom Epirus, which today would correspond to the mountainous coastal strip of western Greece and southern Albania ( which, incidentally, at one time modern Greece claimed as “north Epirus” ). The population was largely Greek, or at least Hellenized, with doubtless some Illyrians and whatnot mixed in. The royal family of the Molossians of which Olympias was a member, claimed descent from Achilles - a claim Alexander subsequently adopted through her. Her daughter, Alexander’s full sister Cleopatra, was married to her brother, king Alexander of Epirus ( installed by Philip ), another adventurous would be imperialist who died fighting in Italy. King Pyrrhus of Epirus was a slightly more distant relative, a grandnephew I think. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/38 "2005-10-23T18:35:17Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > She was from the kingdom Epirus, which today would correspond to the mountainous coastal strip of western Greece and southern Albania ( which, incidentally, at one time modern Greece claimed as “north Epirus” ). The population was largely Greek, or at least Hellenized, with doubtless some Illyrians and whatnot mixed in. The royal family of the Molossians of which Olympias was a member, claimed descent from Achilles - a claim Alexander subsequently adopted through her. Gah! Epirus! I knew that! I probably should turn in my Classics degree now… ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400/39 "2005-10-23T23:50:23Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You said it better than I. Personally, I consider Master and Commander as one of my favorite movies. It is certainly one of my favorites of the last ten years, and probably one of my all time favorites as well. I am hoping for a sequel, as long as it is of similar quality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexander-wtf-happened-to-oliver-stone-spoilers/327400.md?page=1)