# Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (her brilliant retort to Yoho) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 24, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220 "2020-07-24T14:56:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/141 "2020-07-25T16:24:58Z")
Anyone treating it as a sick burn against “them”, instead of something that they themselves need to reflect on. Anyone who doesn’t see themselves as part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/142 "2020-07-25T16:28:17Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > This speech reveals how empty conservatism is of any of the values it purportedly upholds. Ultimately, conservative means nothing except preserving the status quo hierarchy for its own sake. > > I am compelled to point out that this appears to be an illicit process: > > - All Representative-Yoho are conservatives. > - No Representitive-Yoho are consistent with conservative values. > - Therefore, no conservatives are consistent with conservative values. > > **The correct conclusion would be that _some_ conservatives are hypocrites, but that’s significantly less useful as hyperbole.** > > ~Max I prefer the conclusion _the label of “conservative” is misapplied in what appears to be at least a plurality of cases_. Given that the GOP is primarily a radical reactionary party since not later than the 1994 midterms, my conclusion is arguably correcter than yours. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/143 "2020-07-25T16:29:19Z")
It is not that she put the final nail in the coffin of misogyny. It is the stark contrast drawn between AOC and Yoho in virtually every single aspect that has people excited. It is a vivid example of much that is right (AOC) and much that is wrong (Yoho) in American. There can hardly be a better and more timely illustration of the coming change of social tide. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/144 "2020-07-25T16:40:35Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Anyone who doesn’t see themselves as part of the problem. Every single one of us can be pointed to as being “part of the problem” for something. People need inspirational moments which lead them to change. This may be the seminal moment for some and not for others. Harshing on those who do find this meaningful is probably not the way to encourage the change you want to see happen. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/145 "2020-07-25T16:41:13Z")
That’s the most optimistic reading possible, and it’s rooted in the fact thag it seems self-evident that she “won”, that she “showed him”. But that isn’t obvious to me. The most powerful political party in America thinks he won, that he spoke truth to power and she is just a whiney attention whore, a woke-scold. This isn’t a sign of inevitable victory, it’s terrifying that it’s still happening. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/146 "2020-07-25T16:43:18Z")
Can i speak openly and honestly about my concerns here? Or do I need to be thinking rhetorically all the time? Because I think of this as a place where I can express my deeper concerns. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/147 "2020-07-25T16:46:42Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > That’s the most optimistic reading possible, and it’s rooted in the fact thag it seems self-evident that she “won”, that she “showed him”. But that isn’t obvious to me. The most powerful political party in America thinks he won, that he spoke truth to power and she is just a whiney attention whore, a woke-scold. > > This isn’t a sign of inevitable victory, it’s terrifying that it’s still happening. I agree that there’s a long ways to go. This speech is part of the process. Certainly it reached some people who wouldn’t have been wholly cognizant of the pervasiveness of the problem. Following your logic, I don’t see how MLK speeches would be satisfactory. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/148 "2020-07-25T16:48:44Z")
The problem isn’t the speech. The speech is great. The problem is the reaction to the speech. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/149 "2020-07-25T16:50:13Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > That’s the most optimistic reading possible, and it’s rooted in the fact thag it seems self-evident that she “won”, that she “showed him”. But that isn’t obvious to me. The most powerful political party in America thinks he won, that he spoke truth to power and she is just a whiney attention whore, a woke-scold. > > This isn’t a sign of inevitable victory, it’s terrifying that it’s still happening. Oh, you’re after the full capitulation by the deplorable right to the enlightened victory by the morally superior left. Well, why didn’t you just say so?! I’m no biblical scholar but I’m pretty sure that even the arrival of the Messiah is expected to achieve that kind of 100% result as far as changing hearts and minds. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/150 "2020-07-25T16:57:31Z")
Of course. You’ve every right to express yourself as you see fit and you don’t need anyone’s permission to do so. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/151 "2020-07-25T17:02:17Z")
So why chide me for “harshing”? The speech doesn’t fill me with optimism, not because it’s a bad speech–it’s great–but because it will just reinforce the “women are attention whores” narrative as much as it helps. Because the majority of the country wants to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/152 "2020-07-25T17:03:51Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > … The speech doesn’t fill me with optimism, not because it’s a bad speech–it’s great–but because it will just reinforce the “women are attention whores” narrative as much as it helps. Because the majority of the country wants to believe that Hmm… wouldn’t that be true of any speech, any time, though? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/153 "2020-07-25T17:04:46Z")
Yes. That’s why it’s depressing. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/154 "2020-07-25T17:09:42Z")
On balance, is it better or worse that AOC spoke out as she did? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/155 "2020-07-25T17:13:22Z")
Also would like to mention that Churchill gave some highly inspirational speeches when England was at war. Not a one of his great speeches made a single German soldier surrender, nor give Hitler pause to reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/156 "2020-07-25T17:17:03Z")
Again. Not about the speech. The issue is treating the speech as if she struck a great blow against the right, put them in their place , shamed them into recognizing the error of their ways. No speech will do that, because they have decided not to listen. Sharing the speech on social media with that it mind, with a “watch how she destroys him” mindset is ignoring that. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/157 "2020-07-25T17:18:00Z")
And if anyone shared those speeches with the sentiment “Look how he OWNS the third reich”, I’d say the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/158 "2020-07-25T17:22:07Z")
Sure. But who won the war? 😁 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/159 "2020-07-25T17:44:26Z")
Can we assume that Dopers who are inspired by the AOC speech will now reevaluate their own use of sexist hate speech here in the SDMB? If so, that’s not nothing. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220/160 "2020-07-25T17:45:49Z")
For years, I have been pointing out that men who deny they could possibly be sexist because they have daughters are displaying a paternalistic attitude - literally! - just by bringing that up. I well recall the first time a man used the “but I have daughters” defense on me when I called him out on his sexist behavior. Sadly, I did not say what I was thinking, which was: “I’m not your daughter and it is inappropriate for you to lump me or any woman with whom you have a professional relationship into the same category. It is appropriate for you to feel protective toward your daughter. But I don’t want your protection. I want, and deserve, your respect, because I’m you’re equal, not your child.” AOC didn’t quite frame the discussion that way, but I do appreciate that she at least articulated a good response to the “but I have daughters!” defense. “I’m someone’s daughter too” is worth saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-her-brilliant-retort-to-yoho/916220.md?page=9)