# Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is a really, really bad guy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 8, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182 "2019-02-08T16:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/41 "2019-02-08T20:02:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t doubt that AOC has good motives and intentions, but she is introducing a “bumper-sticker” mindset to politics (not that it wasn’t there before, but she’s worsening it.) First, you know what fits on a bumper sticker? “Tippecanoe and Tyler Too,” that’s what fits on a bumper sticker. This ain’t a new thang at all. Second, you know what doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker? A five-minute back-and-forth about various aspects of campaign and legislative law and ethics, that’s what doesn’t. Third, Trump won with “Build The Wall!” and “Lock Her Up!” and McCain tried to win with “Drill Baby Drill!” and Obama won with “Yes We Can!” There’s no goddamned way that AOC is making bumper-sticker mindset worse in our politics. Finally, folks are objecting to her argument based on the idea that money doesn’t win elections. As Rebecca Bunch would say, the situation is a lot more nuanced than that. Money DOES sometimes matter. Spending in the week before an election can cause a bump, according to the article, and spending in primaries can make a big difference, and spending by challengers in races without clear partisan lines can make a difference. And there’s the issue of perception. If politicians **believe** that the money makes a difference, then it **will** change their behavior in deleterious ways. Madame Bad Guy who believes she needs fossil fuel money in order to win her next election may be wrong, but that won’t stop her from voting in favor of legislation that allows offshore drilling. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/42 "2019-02-08T20:09:36Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > And I’d say there’s about 5/95 split there in terms of which matters more. Money can buy a lot of direct mail & television propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/43 "2019-02-08T20:17:09Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > We’ve had bumper-sticker politics _at least_ since Jimmy Carter. And I say that because that’s as far back as I can remember personally. But really, since the beginning of the two-party system. > [@](#): > > What AOC is doing is pulling in a left-populist, anti-corruption direction. It occurred to me that someone else in our popular mythology did that. Jewish guy, had magic powers or something? I meant Kal-L from the earliest Superman comic strips, whom did you think I meant? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/44 "2019-02-08T20:19:33Z")
I thought you meant Hanukkah Harry ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/45 "2019-02-08T20:24:14Z")
Hanukkah Harry! I love that a character Lovitz played _twice_ is that recognizable. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/46 "2019-02-08T20:28:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Who is terrified of her? On the right, they call her the gift that keeps on giving. They think she’s hilarious, not scary. Her ‘Green New Deal’ is the funniest thing to come out of Washington since Al Franken. Keep laughing at the hilarious proposed legislation that is already garnering a great deal of support. They “think she is funny” because mocking people is a tried and true method to grind them under your heel. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/47 "2019-02-08T20:33:41Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > A pretty interesting hypothetical game played pretty brilliantly by the AOC. > > TLDW: She plays a bad guy and asks hypothetical questions about the legalities of enriching herself (as a politician) at the expense of the American public. She then wraps up by showing that the president actually has even more room to do so. > … > Does anyone find flaws in her argument? I entirely agree with her argument. It is too easy for politicians in D.C. to enrich themselves at the expense of the American public. Obviously what we need to do is dramatically cut taxes and shrink the size and power of the federal government, in order to reduce the chances that politicians have for enriching themselves. I watched the video and didn’t see Cortez making that last point, but based on the argument she made, it obviously follows logically that that’s what she’s getting at. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/48 "2019-02-08T20:35:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Does it matter? “There’s a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right” Are you sure AOC’s diction is entirely unreasonable? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/49 "2019-02-08T20:41:53Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I entirely agree with her argument. > > It is too easy for politicians in D.C. to enrich themselves at the expense of the American public. Obviously what we need to do is dramatically cut taxes and shrink the size and power of the federal government, in order to reduce the chances that politicians have for enriching themselves. > > I watched the video and didn’t see Cortez making that last point, but based on the argument she made, it obviously follows logically that that’s what she’s getting at. What a cool way to win an argument: imagine your opponent agrees with you and declare victory! Like, right now I’m imagining you realize that I’m being sarcastic and that it’s an absolutely absurd way to argue, and that even though you haven’t apologized yet for it, you’re going to do so, given that it’s the logical next move for you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/50 "2019-02-08T20:49:10Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I entirely agree with her argument. > > It is too easy for politicians in D.C. to enrich themselves at the expense of the American public. Obviously what we need to do is dramatically cut taxes and shrink the size and power of the federal government, in order to reduce the chances that politicians have for enriching themselves. Federal authorities charged with protecting consumers, protecting the environment, and regulating drugs are liable to be co-opted by moneyed interests. The solution is to stop protecting consumers, stop protecting the environment, and to stop regulating drugs. Got it. Federal authorities charged with regulating financial institutions to prevent panics and frauds and the loss of taxpayer dollars when financial crises strike may be corrupted by the same private companies they are charged with regulating. The solution is to ignore the possibility of frauds, encourage panics and … and what? Let the dollar dig itself out of the gutter next time? Revert to the gold standard? Got it, I guess? Your newsletter must be real amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/51 "2019-02-08T20:49:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I entirely agree with her argument. > > It is too easy for politicians in D.C. to enrich themselves at the expense of the American public. Obviously what we need to do is dramatically cut taxes and shrink the size and power of the federal government, in order to reduce the chances that politicians have for enriching themselves. > > I watched the video and didn’t see Cortez making that last point, but based on the argument she made, it obviously follows logically that that’s what she’s getting at. So, presumably, because of this conclusion, you will probably vote for the republican candidate in 2020, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/52 "2019-02-08T20:50:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are you sure AOC’s diction is entirely unreasonable? [I’ve already cautioned you against this here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20735739&postcount=181), but perhaps I wasn’t being clear enough. You also brought it up [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21177757&postcount=280) and [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21436502&postcount=148), but they were slightly more germane so that did not warrant a comment. So let me be clear - If you do this again, you will receive a warning for harassment. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/53 "2019-02-08T21:53:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Who is terrified of her? On the right, they call her the gift that keeps on giving. They think she’s hilarious, not scary. Her ‘Green New Deal’ is the funniest thing to come out of Washington since Al Franken. That’s what they say about things that they’re afraid of. It’s called propaganda. If they weren’t concerned about her ideas gaining traction then they’d just ignore her rather than draw attention to her. They know that she’s getting attention so they’re belittling her. This is politics 101. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/54 "2019-02-08T21:59:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So, presumably, because of this conclusion, you will probably vote for the republican candidate in 2020, correct? Nope. I’ll most likely vote for the Libertarian candidate, just as I did in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/55 "2019-02-08T22:11:03Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > ... She’s awesome. I was wondering who the push-back fighter was going to be with Al Franken gone. To those who voted her in: Thank You! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/56 "2019-02-08T23:51:07Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That’s what they say about things that they’re afraid of. It’s called propaganda. > > If they weren’t concerned about her ideas gaining traction then they’d just ignore her rather than draw attention to her. > > They know that she’s getting attention so they’re belittling her. This is politics 101. They WANT her and her ideas getting as much attention as possible. Trust me - if Republicans could make AOC the face of the Democratic party, they’d be happy to. In fact, that’s what rhey are hoping for. And if they could get every Democrat to sign on to her ‘green new deal’, they’d do that too, Because they would crush the Democrats in the next election. You grossly overestimate the popularity of AOC’s ideas among the general public. And the ‘green new deal’ would piss off so many Democratic constituents that Republicans would sweep the Midwest. People as far to the left as Ocasio-Cortez get the support of maybe 10-15% of the electorate, and then only when her grand plans to re-engineer spciety don’t specifically target their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/57 "2019-02-09T00:02:14Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > A pretty interesting hypothetical game played pretty brilliantly by the AOC. > > TLDW: She plays a bad guy and asks hypothetical questions about the legalities of enriching herself (as a politician) at the expense of the American public. She then wraps up by showing that the president actually has even more room to do so. > > I thought it was pretty well done and would probably watch a lot of CSPAN if congress and their committee meetings were always like this. > > Does anyone find flaws in her argument? I believe I heard her conclude that our system is “fundamentally broken”. I wouldn’t agree with this characterization. But say, quite damaged, and in need of repair? Certainly. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/58 "2019-02-09T00:15:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t doubt that AOC has good motives and intentions, but she is introducing a “bumper-sticker” mindset to politics (not that it wasn’t there before, but she’s worsening it.) Shortening every complex social/economic issue of the day down into a simple, incorrect, oversimplified misleading argument and then feeding it to the masses. I don’t know what AOC’s motivations are, but I’d say that simplifying complex/economic issues in order to get people to think about them, as a way to learning better that complexity, and then what can be done about problems with them, is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/59 "2019-02-09T00:28:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Who is terrified of her? On the right, they call her the gift that keeps on giving. They think she’s hilarious, not scary. That is the same thing the Republicans thought about Donald Trump. They still think he is hilarious, although not scary now. They are wrong, the scary part is coming. That is what they do miss, their blind support of the embodiment (Trump) of a lot of what they claimed to be against, is one big reason why then people like Cortez are given a look now. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182/60 "2019-02-09T00:34:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You grossly overestimate the popularity of AOC’s ideas among the general public. And the ‘green new deal’ would piss off so many Democratic constituents that Republicans would sweep the Midwest. People as far to the left as Ocasio-Cortez get the support of maybe 10-15% of the electorate, and then only when her grand plans to re-engineer spciety don’t specifically target their jobs. I think we had this conversation before, I do think you are grossly underestimating what the general public wants. > **[Americans are worried about climate change — but don’t want to pay much to...](https://www.vox.com/2019/1/28/18197262/climate-change-poll-public-opinion-carbon-tax)** > > The rhetoric around climate change is shifting, but it’s not leading to action. > [@](#): > > Several recent polls show that people in the United States are increasingly alarmed about climate change. > > According to a nationally representative survey from Yale University and George Mason University, 69 percent of Americans are “somewhat worried” about climate change and 29 percent are “very worried.” These are the highest values since the surveys began in 2008, and the “very worried” category shows an 8 percent jump compared to the previous survey published in April 2018. > > “We’ve never seen that happen before,” said co-author Anthony Leiserowitz, director of the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication. “My read of it is that basically, people are more convinced that it’s happening and more convinced that it’s human-caused.” > > Similarly, a national Reuters/Ipsos poll from December found that 72 percent of Americans consider climate change to be a moderate, serious, or imminent threat. > > A big reason for the growing concern is that many of the consequences of climate change have become impossible to ignore in recent years. The United States saw billions of dollars in damages and dozens of deaths last year as rising temperatures increased the damages from extreme events. These disasters helped make the somewhat abstract warming of the planet tangible in people’s minds. > > “You can experience, a drought, flood, or hurricane, but you can’t experience global temperatures going up,” Leiserowitz said. > > The findings echo yet another national poll from the University of Chicago and the Associated Press this month that found that 71 percent of Americans understand that the climate is changing, and a majority know that humans are driving it. Forty-eight percent of Americans say they are more convinced by climate science than they were five years ago, in large part due to their experiences with extreme weather. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-a-really-really-bad-guy/829182.md?page=4)