# Alice in Wonderland manuscripts, with non-Tenniel drawings. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 27, 2015, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696 "2015-11-27T08:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/1 "2015-11-27T08:06:13Z")
I just noticed this article on Yahoo news. November 26, 2015 is the 150th anniversary of the first publication of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. In commemoration, the British Library tweeted some images of Carroll’s hand-written manuscript, which includes illustrations. [The article I saw shows a few.](https://gma.yahoo.com/alice-wonderland-150th-anniversary-see-lewis-carrolls-original-162625513--abc-news-celebrities.html) Anybody know who might have drawn those illustrations? They appear to be fairly elaborate drawings, but they are certainly _not_ the Tenniel drawings that we’ll all come to know. (BTW, these drawings of Alice are apparently do not resemble Alice Liddell any more than the Tenniel pictures do. According to Martin Gardner, the real Alice had short hair and bangs.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/2 "2015-11-27T08:34:03Z")
Those look great. Why didn’t they use them in the published book? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/3 "2015-11-27T08:56:02Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I just noticed this article on Yahoo news. > > November 26, 2015 is the 150th anniversary of the first publication of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. > > In commemoration, the British Library tweeted some images of Carroll’s hand-written manuscript, which includes illustrations. [The article I saw shows a few.](https://gma.yahoo.com/alice-wonderland-150th-anniversary-see-lewis-carrolls-original-162625513--abc-news-celebrities.html) > > Anybody know who might have drawn those illustrations? They appear to be fairly elaborate drawings, but they are certainly _not_ the Tenniel drawings that we’ll all come to know. > > (BTW, these drawings of Alice are apparently do not resemble Alice Liddell any more than the Tenniel pictures do. According to Martin Gardner, the real Alice had short hair and bangs.) [Carroll did the illustrations himself.](http://www.bl.uk/collection-items/alices-adventures-under-ground-the-original-manuscript-version-of-alices-adventures-in-wonderland?ns_campaign=alice&ns_mchannel=social_media&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=alicespace_item_original_manuscript&ns_fee=0) They are quite elaborate, but clearly the work of an amateur. There is a photo of Alice Liddell with short hair, but I seem to remember that it’s from a couple of years before this manuscript, so she may well have grown her hair longer in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/4 "2015-11-27T10:34:16Z")
I have an edition with the original Carroll illustrations. OK for an amateur, but you can see why Tenniel is the best-known illustrator. ---
**Author:** ![Donegal\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Donegal\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donegal_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/5 "2015-11-27T13:48:33Z")
I have a first edition copy of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland(1907) with illustrations by Arthur Rackham who was(is) famous for his paintings of Faeries. I much prefer his take on Alice than the more standard Tenniel. But he also paints Alice as a blonde ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/6 "2015-11-27T14:49:54Z")
Not directly relevant, but there’s also a nice edition with [illustrations](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tove+jansson+alice+illustrations&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqiP_d7LDJAhVDeA8KHURfALAQsAQIHQ&biw=1168&bih=643#imgrc=_) by Tove Jansson of Moomins fame. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/7 "2015-11-27T15:27:01Z")
I’ve always kinda liked Willy Pogany’s 1920’s Alice, as a tween Flapper with bobbed hair and short skirt. [https://www.google.com/search?q=willy+pogany+alice&rlz=1C9BKJA\_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=isvn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=EH-lfIu1o9ecYM%253A%252CqckjyeRNPJdT2M%252C\_%253BE\_s7uDE7XuVGnM%253A%252CEfMWRCumn6eytM%252C\_%253BlWNNV4lgJWJ1NM%253A%252CXyxkmTIjZ4BvFM%252C\_%253Bz9BOzLmHOY4AFM%253A%252CfYxcblaO7AqaZM%252C\_%253B0o89KEBGQSfvxM%253A%252Cmj4HsaQ07-\_XVM%252C\_%253BVk0AOtZiZTTkIM%253A%252C4P9nMPfUzvG\_6M%252C\_%253B8vy1ZeQWJkqExM%253A%252Cx0VBDWHRFT7zpM%252C\_%253Bn9WApvFy-YcWhM%253A%252CjeuE9IzUI12nlM%252C\_%253BQEyNspypxYuV3M%253A%252C3ucW5UzSwLxFbM%252C\_%253B5lnRDaLxdsjibM%253A%252C1zkh27c-1L-UYM%252C\_&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibyb2d9bDJAhVD4iYKHdXEBcEQsAQIGg&biw=1024&bih=653&usg=\_\_7NVirBP7Ax\_Ix6eDGO-BbpqTsM8%3D#imgrc=\_](https://www.google.com/search?q=willy+pogany+alice&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=isvn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=EH-lfIu1o9ecYM%253A%252CqckjyeRNPJdT2M%252C_%253BE_s7uDE7XuVGnM%253A%252CEfMWRCumn6eytM%252C_%253BlWNNV4lgJWJ1NM%253A%252CXyxkmTIjZ4BvFM%252C_%253Bz9BOzLmHOY4AFM%253A%252CfYxcblaO7AqaZM%252C_%253B0o89KEBGQSfvxM%253A%252Cmj4HsaQ07-_XVM%252C_%253BVk0AOtZiZTTkIM%253A%252C4P9nMPfUzvG_6M%252C_%253B8vy1ZeQWJkqExM%253A%252Cx0VBDWHRFT7zpM%252C_%253Bn9WApvFy-YcWhM%253A%252CjeuE9IzUI12nlM%252C_%253BQEyNspypxYuV3M%253A%252C3ucW5UzSwLxFbM%252C_%253B5lnRDaLxdsjibM%253A%252C1zkh27c-1L-UYM%252C_&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibyb2d9bDJAhVD4iYKHdXEBcEQsAQIGg&biw=1024&bih=653&usg=__7NVirBP7Ax_Ix6eDGO-BbpqTsM8%3D#imgrc=_) ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/8 "2015-11-27T15:30:27Z")
Ohhhhh, and Mervyn (author of _Gormenghast_) Peake, of course! Peake was always the best illustrator of EVERYTHING. See especially the first image, of Alice going through the looking glass. [https://www.google.com/search?q=mervyn+peake+alice&rlz=1C9BKJA\_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJj8zp9bDJAhXIOyYKHZbGCcEQ\_AUIBygB#imgrc=\_](https://www.google.com/search?q=mervyn+peake+alice&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJj8zp9bDJAhXIOyYKHZbGCcEQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=_) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/9 "2015-11-27T18:51:26Z")
Yowza! I’ve never even heard of any of the other illustrations that several posters above have mentioned. Pretty much, the only commentary I’ve read about the Alice books is some of the stuff that Martin Gardner has written. I don’t recall that he ever mentioned (much?) about alternate illustrations. Did I miss something there? ETA: Alice the Tween Flapper? Now that’s different! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/10 "2015-11-27T19:22:27Z")
What, no love for Salvador Dali’s illustrations? [https://www.google.com/search?q=alice+in+wonderland+salvador+dali](https://www.google.com/search?q=alice+in+wonderland+salvador+dali) ---
**Author:** ![norvalnormal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@norvalnormal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norvalnormal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/11 "2015-11-27T23:48:48Z")
The Morgan Library in NYC had a recent Carroll exhibit, with objects that belonged to the real-life Alice, Carroll photographs, and lots of Tenniel artwork, not all of it Carroll-related. In the center of the smallish room was a plexiglas case with the ms., opened to a page spread which showed the author’s elongated-neck Alice. It was the first time in years that this ms. had been out of the British Library. I had this amazing view (mere inches from my face) more or less to myself for several minutes on a Saturday afternoon. As if this wasn’t sufficiently heaven, across the hallway was a spectacular Ernest Hemingway exhibit that had opened that day (on loan from Washington, D.C.), with his actual dogtags, a single-spaced typewritten letter from J.D. Salinger to Hemingway, and many, many manuscripts and letters, both personal and professional. Ah, if only I still lived in Manhattan … ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/12 "2015-11-28T00:25:03Z")
That was a great show. Did you get to their Poe exhibit two years ago? in addition to three copies of _Tamarlane_ and a slew of original mss, there was a TON of original illustration artwork. I was particularly interested in the Harry Clarke stuff, because JESUS CHRIST, HARRY CLARKE WAS A GENIUS, but also blown away by the Dore, the Beardsley, the Rackham, and the Edmund Dulac. And others I can’t remember offhand. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/13 "2015-11-28T00:34:12Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > What, no love for Salvador Dali’s illustrations? > > [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=alice+in+wonderland+salvador+dali) Okay, surreal. Those remind me more of Ralph Steadman’s art. (You know, the guy who illustrated Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas.) And what’s with that jump-rope? ---
**Author:** ![norvalnormal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@norvalnormal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norvalnormal)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/14 "2015-11-28T01:08:22Z")
U. Ike: No, but the Morgan had another Poe exhibit something like 10 years ago. His handwriting was so tiny (to save on paper costs?) that a lot of it I could not even read (and I’m a proofreader). I am more of a New-York Historical Society and Metropolitan Museum-goer, and had gone to the Morgan only 'cause it was the annual Smithsonian Free Museum Day. This was the first time I saw their permanent exhibit rooms, and–wow!! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/15 "2015-11-28T01:12:02Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Okay, surreal. Those remind me more of Ralph Steadman’s art. (You know, the guy who illustrated Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas.) And what’s with that jump-rope? Steadman also illustrated Alice! ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/16 "2015-11-28T01:36:04Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Okay, surreal. Those remind me more of Ralph Steadman’s art. (You know, the guy who illustrated Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas.) And what’s with that jump-rope? Dali liked drawing/painting girls jumping rope, so it’s more Dali than Carroll. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/17 "2015-11-28T02:08:09Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Ohhhhh, and Mervyn (author of _Gormenghast_) Peake, of course! Peake was always the best illustrator of EVERYTHING. See especially the first image, of Alice going through the looking glass. > > [mervyn peake alice - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=mervyn+peake+alice&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJj8zp9bDJAhXIOyYKHZbGCcEQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=_) Um, I thought Carroll was the one into little girls. [A bit too coquettish, perhaps?](http://c300221.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/mervyn-peake-alice-1358650548_b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/18 "2015-11-28T02:23:49Z")
Mervyn Peake was very much into sex. He was a very handsome guy, and his wife Maeve was a total babe. If you read his biographies, the two of them seemed to spend most of their time in the sack. A lot of his illos are intensely erotic. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland-manuscripts-with-non-tenniel-drawings/738696/19 "2015-11-28T02:38:58Z")
In the 1980s, a [facsimile edition](http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/product/alices-adventures-under-ground-a-facsimile/) of Carroll’s hand-written and -drawn first version of **Alice’s Adventures Underground** was released. It’s the version of **Alice** I’m most familiar with.