# Alice in Wonderland **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 7, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339 "2009-12-07T18:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/21 "2009-12-08T04:31:20Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Some people just _have_ to believe drug use contributed to something that has become popular and well known. Possibly as a justification for their own interest in said drugs, “It makes you smarter and write amazing stories.” or some other such BS. Of course one shouldn’t jump to conclusions, especially in such a straight-laced Victorian context. But it’s not as though psychedelic drugs do no such thing. What do you think George Harrison was talking about when he characterized the late 60s/early 70s as a “mini renaissance”? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/22 "2009-12-08T12:57:18Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The human mind doesn’t need drugs to come up with some crazy-ass stuff. > > Wasn’t _Alice_ partly political commentary? Yes and no. A lot of the political stuff came from the way in which the illustrator John Tenniel chose to draw Carroll’s characters based off of real-life likenesses. Carroll has some tongue-in-cheek references to the political system, such as having the animals run around in pointless caucus to get dry, but the specific commentary on individuals was more Tenniel’s doing, and, from what I understand, a point of conflict between the two creators. Carroll was such a straight-laced, almost child-like man it is highly specious that he was using drugs. I don’t find anything particularly trippy about the original story, either, it seems that ‘‘freaky’’ aspect came much later when the story was embraced by the drug culture. All Dodgeson/Carroll was doing was writing a story for children, and unlike most adults of the day, he didn’t believe children ought to be patronized. The philosophical math-nerd sensibility just sort of slipped in there. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/23 "2009-12-08T15:11:54Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > Lewis Carroll’s works, however, are barely contiguous. Indeed they bounce from scene to scene and from frivoulous to innane to absurd. It’s easy to see how they could be the result of some sort of opiate use. > > Poets, unlike novel writers, do not need to maintain a story in thier minds for months on end and are freer to muddle their brains with toxins at whim. No doubt you’re right, but there are always exceptions. Specifically, I’m thinking about Wilkie Collins a very popular Victorian novelist, and longtime collaborator of Charles Dickens. He was also heavily addicted to Laudanum throughout most of his adult life. Despite that, I think some of his mystery fiction ranks up there with the best of the genre even though he was likely high as a kite when writing them. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/24 "2009-12-08T15:27:23Z")
LSD may not have been around but hallucinogenic mushrooms certainly were. The stories have direct reference to eating mushrooms and having trips. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/25 "2009-12-17T00:05:00Z")
Not sure if this is relevant any longer, but I just stumbled across [an article](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427391.600-alices-adventures-in-algebra-wonderland-solved.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news) attempting to interpret various elements of Alice’s adventures as satirical critiques of at the time emerging new concepts in mathematics – to be honest, it seems a bit vague and far-fetched to me in places, but it’s not something I’ve heard discussed so far, so it seemed original enough to bring up. ---
**Author:** ![justafriend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@justafriend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justafriend)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/26 "2009-12-17T03:47:26Z")
Can anyone direct me to a few good analyses of the Alice books? I’ve read both stories, and enjoyed them, but I got the distinct feeling that I was missing out on part of the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/27 "2009-12-17T03:51:51Z")
I haven’t read it myself, but I bought a family member Martin Gardner’s _The Annotated Alice_, and by all accounts it’s excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/28 "2009-12-17T04:37:49Z")
> [@justafriend](#): > > Can anyone direct me to a few good analyses of the Alice books? I’ve read both stories, and enjoyed them, but I got the distinct feeling that I was missing out on part of the fun. Yes, Gardner’s _Annotated Alice_ is _the_ answer to your question. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339/29 "2009-12-17T04:40:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yes, Gardner’s _Annotated Alice_ is _the_ answer to your question. Thirded. It greatly enhances understanding and enjoyment of the story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-in-wonderland/520339.md?page=1)