# Aliens - so what were the Colonial Marines actually prepared for (tactically)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 29, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260 "2015-01-29T19:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/141 "2019-02-23T05:23:57Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Her favorite scene to shoot? The one in which Newt, stuck chest-high in water, is snatched up by a towering alien—a terrifying sequence, and one that gave most other 10-year-olds nightmares for years to come. But for Henn, it was mostly a chance to goof around. “The first assistant director had actually had someone stay there overnight, to make sure the water stayed warm,” she said. “But it was actually too warm for me, so I would sit up on bars on the side, and the alien and I would stay up there, kicking our feet in the water.” > > Man, I wish someone had taken a photo of that. 😃 [Next best thing.](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/aliens_b_word) ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/142 "2019-02-23T09:51:00Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I know this is a multiply-bumped thread, but just to comment on the “42 million dollars for a giant starship” issue: [From a 2013 _Bloomberg_ article](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/photo-essays/2013-09-05/holy-ship#slide1), the Danish shipping company Maersk ordered a new class of really huge container ships. For a few years [they](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk_Triple_E-class_container_ship) were the largest container ships on Earth. The Bloomberg article describes this as “the most gigantic risk Maersk has ever taken”. _Those_ ships cost $185 million each. _Nostromo_ certainly doesn’t seem like the latest and greatest thing in space, nor was it shiny and new at the time of the events of the original movie. So “$42 million” doesn’t seem that far off for a grotty, old, industrial ship. (Accepting, as is generally necessary for this kind of “space opera”, a very radical increase in the human race’s capabilities as a “space-faring” species. It costs tens of billions of dollars to put some tin cans in Low Earth Orbit because we’re not very good at it yet.) They might have also chopped a few zeros off due to inflation at some point in the future because people were annoyed at having to pay $115 for a single bottle of coke. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/143 "2019-02-23T15:06:37Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I know this is a multiply-bumped thread, but just to comment on the “42 million dollars for a giant starship” issue… Also, keep in mind the actual quote is “42 million in ADJUSTED dollars”. I know it’s supposed to be adjusted for 50 years of inflation from the point where Ripley lost it. But I think we can assume it’s adjusted to 1980s dollars to reflect the cost of the Nostromo in terms the audience understands. The Nostromo is not unique product of a multi-billion dollar space program. It’s a run-of-the-mill freighter in an interstellar economy. Expensive, but not in a “pinnacle of modern technology” sort of way. Basically as if the captain of the Edmund Fitzgerald showed up one day with a story about how he blew up the ship to kill a seamonster that ate his crew. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/144 "2019-02-23T18:02:23Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Also, keep in mind the actual quote is “42 million in ADJUSTED dollars”. I know it’s supposed to be adjusted for 50 years of inflation from the point where Ripley lost it. Repeating what I said in 2015, I get that it can be fanwanked but the line still pulls me out every time I hear it. It just sounds like a ridiculously low sum even if I can later do some mental gymnastics to justify it. The line could have been written better. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/145 "2019-02-24T01:47:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > …Basically as if the captain of the Edmund Fitzgerald showed up one day with a story about how he blew up the ship to kill a seamonster that ate his crew. Heh. Nice analogy. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/146 "2019-02-24T18:24:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Basically as if the captain of the Edmund Fitzgerald showed up one day with a story about how he blew up the ship to kill a seamonster that ate his crew. OK, somebody really has to do a new cover version of that song, now. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Repeating what I said in 2015, I get that it can be fanwanked but the line still pulls me out every time I hear it. It just sounds like a ridiculously low sum even if I can later do some mental gymnastics to justify it. The line could have been written better. In this case, though, I really think it’s that your mental map of the world is wrong\*. Real world, a “run-of-the-mill freighter in [a global] economy” apparently doesn’t cost billions of dollars; it apparently costs tens of millions of dollars. (Now, when Luke Skywalker claims you could practically buy a starship like the _Millennium Falcon_ for “10,000 credits”–and Han Solo doesn’t really contradict him–_that’s_ low-balling. I guess the _Millennium Falcon_ isn’t so much “oceangoing freighter” so much as it is “someone’s beat-up-looking old pickup truck, complete with dice hanging from the rear view mirror, a state-of-the-art fuzz-buster, and [a hidden compartment for smuggling dope](https://www.wired.com/2013/03/alfred-anaya/)”.) \*Not meant as a harsh criticism, I think it’s really hard for most of us to accurately estimate how much Large Expensive Things cost. How much _does_ it cost to build an oil refinery? A new suburban high school? A highway overpass? And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/147 "2019-02-24T19:24:45Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > In this case, though, I really think it’s that your mental map of the world is wrong\*. Maybe, but I don’t think so. The best people can do is compare it to a big boat and handwave that, in the future, starships will be priced like boats. In reality, they’re a bit more complex than big boats (how many cryo-pods did the Edmund Fitzgerald have?) and there’s no real good reason to think this except that it retroactively fits the price. I actually work in commercial construction and have a good idea for what a new high school, etc costs which doesn’t do much to make the _Nostromo_’s price tag seem more reasonable. In fact, it’s probably why it pings me as silly. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/148 "2019-02-24T19:31:23Z")
Too late for an edit, but it made me chuckle: You could get TWO star freighters for the [cost of a high school](https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/education/2018/07/20/why-would-new-sioux-falls-school-district-high-school-cost-84-million/790461002/) in pricey Sioux Falls, South Dakota 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/149 "2019-02-25T04:11:11Z")
On repeated viewings I started to dislike one of the marine’s dismissive comment of, “It’s another bug hunt.” The dropship has noseart as well that displays an eagle shooting a machine gun with the words “Bug Stomper…we endanger species.” So how common are alien monster species in the ALIEN universe Earth’s military are regularly deployed to kill them? It kind of makes the alien factor of the xenomorph seem less unique. One of the marine’s even mention “Acturian poontang.” One one hand it serves the purpose of setting up the marine’s overconfidence pretty well. Yeah, yeah, we’ve see space monsters before no big deal… On the other, if there’s all these other vicious alien species out there, why hasn’t the W-Y corporation also weaponized them by now, to some degree? If marine’s are reminiscing about having sex with other life forms, does that mean that the ALIEN universe is like Star Trek, with all these other life forms out there interacting with Earth? We don’t see any on the space station Ripley awakens on, nor do we see any in Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection. The comments are nice world building, but it’s kind of weird considering the xenomorph is visually implied to be the only alien species out there. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/150 "2019-02-25T05:07:42Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > So how common are alien monster species in the ALIEN universe Earth’s military are regularly deployed to kill them? It kind of makes the alien factor of the xenomorph seem less unique. > One of the marine’s even mention “Acturian poontang.” The implication is that the other alien species they’ve been called out for _aren’t_ monsters. They’re things that were dangerous enough for colonists to call for help with, but not on the same order as the xenomorphs. Think of things that are, at most, analogous to wolves–a threat to farmers and workers, but not to a squad of heavily armed Marines. Hence, the dismissive attitude; the Marines assume that they’ve been deployed to shoot some dumb animals, because that’s what usually happens. They don’t believe Ripley’s report, either because they think she’s just another hysterical civilian exaggerating a threat, or because they think she made up the story to cover her ass. Arcturians are another matter; apparently it’s established in some of the side media that they are roughly humanoid sapients, with whom humans have established trade. I’ve never seen or read whatever material that comes from, though. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/151 "2019-02-25T09:42:24Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > The implication is that the other alien species they’ve been called out for _aren’t_ monsters. They’re things that were dangerous enough for colonists to call for help with, but not on the same order as the xenomorphs. Think of things that are, at most, analogous to wolves–a threat to farmers and workers, but not to a squad of heavily armed Marines. Hence, the dismissive attitude; the Marines assume that they’ve been deployed to shoot some dumb animals, because that’s what usually happens. I can see that. In my own head canon, I just assumed they were something along those lines. That makes sense. It’s just that, since there’s no real life counterpart to that, since we don’t call in the military for dangerous wild life, you have to think about it a little extra to have it more believable. > [@](#): > > They don’t believe Ripley’s report, either because they think she’s just another hysterical civilian exaggerating a threat, or because they think she made up the story to cover her ass. Well, that’s another problem. Pre-ALIENS, I can imagine The Company finding it hard to believe that one of their truckers made contact with extraterrestrial life for the first time in human history, but also that it was a creature that bleeds acid, and incubates in human hosts. But at a time when humans are in regular contact with alien species, humanoid-like creatures they can have sex with, as well as species in need of being exterminated, it’s weird that EVERYONE would be dismissive of Ripley’s claim. It works for great for setting up the premise of the sequel, but it’s weird once the series expands into a franchise, with it’s own mythos. I used to read the Dark Horse comics, and as great as they were, I don’t think they ever mentioned or showed any other ET-life, and especially not the Arcturians. > [@](#): > > Arcturians are another matter; apparently it’s established in some of the side media that they are roughly humanoid sapients, with whom humans have established trade. I’ve never seen or read whatever material that comes from, though. Same here. Cameron’s set up is great for that particular film, but I don’t think it plays well once you start expanding the series past the second film. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/152 "2019-02-25T14:23:39Z")
It could also be that the Arcturians are humans who colonized Arcturus from Earth, and diverge from Earthling humans only culturally. One can find similar “it doesn’t count as gay” attitudes even here on Earth, dealing with various nations. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/153 "2019-02-25T15:08:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It could also be that the Arcturians are humans who colonized Arcturus from Earth, and diverge from Earthling humans only culturally. One can find similar “it doesn’t count as gay” attitudes even here on Earth, dealing with various nations. That works. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/154 "2019-02-25T15:25:10Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Arcturians are another matter; apparently it’s established in some of the side media that they are roughly humanoid sapients, with whom humans have established trade. I’ve never seen or read whatever material that comes from, though. I read that the Arcturians _were_ human, just diverse. Maybe bio-engineered, but still human. My take on the Alien universe is that all intelligent life is humans, except for the long-vanished engineers (having not seen _Prometheus_). I’m not even sure the Xenomorphs are intelligent. But it was never said for sure either way. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/155 "2019-02-25T15:28:08Z")
I thought “Arcturian” was an obvious homage to “[The Long Tomorrow](https://marciokenobi.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/the-long-tomorrow-by-moebius/)” by Moebius. [link NB : nudity, and Arcturian poontang] ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/156 "2019-02-25T15:36:12Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > But at a time when humans are in regular contact with alien species, humanoid-like creatures they can have sex with, as well as species in need of being exterminated, it’s weird that EVERYONE would be dismissive of Ripley’s claim. Well, they’re dismissive of Ripley’s claims (incubation, acidic blood, etc) because they haven’t encountered anything remotely like it in umpteen explored worlds. Perhaps all the other life discovered was still pretty close to terrestrial life so her claims were sort of like saying you discovered acid-gorillas in darkest Brazil. Plus they already assumed she was a bit insane and the Hadley’s Hope colony had been going trouble-free for years so the net result was dismissing her report as somewhere between lunacy and ass-covering lies with a typical dash of corporate bureaucratic incompetence from the W-Y review board. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/157 "2019-02-25T16:13:16Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I thought “Arcturian” was an obvious homage to “[The Long Tomorrow](https://marciokenobi.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/the-long-tomorrow-by-moebius/)” by Moebius. [link NB : nudity, and Arcturian poontang] Wow, thanks! Never saw that before. Very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/158 "2019-02-25T17:02:28Z")
[Moderating] The warning of nudity is appreciated, but we actually require a bit more than that: Any not-safe-for-work content must follow the two-click rule, that a user must make at least two clicks before bringing it up. The easiest way to do that is to enclose the NSFW link in a spoiler, which I have done. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/159 "2019-02-25T19:25:58Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Well, that’s another problem. > Pre-ALIENS, I can imagine The Company finding it hard to believe that one of their truckers made contact with extraterrestrial life for the first time in human history, but also that it was a creature that bleeds acid, and incubates in human hosts. > > But at a time when humans are in regular contact with alien species, humanoid-like creatures they can have sex with, as well as species in need of being exterminated, it’s weird that EVERYONE would be dismissive of Ripley’s claim. > It works for great for setting up the premise of the sequel, but it’s weird once the series expands into a franchise, with it’s own mythos. I used to read the Dark Horse comics, and as great as they were, I don’t think they ever mentioned or showed any other ET-life, and especially not the Arcturians. I didn’t follow the comics, and I am–to put it mildly–not a fan of the movies after _Aliens_, but I don’t recall anyone being in denial _after_ the Marines encounter the xenomorphs. Prior to that, the only evidence anyone had was a warning message translated from an alien beacon, which led some W-Y exec to try the underhanded maneuver in _Alien_. Presumably, the content was kept secret, first because the exec wanted exclusive control of whatever came of it, and later because of CYA. When the _Nostromo_ didn’t come back, they covered it up, and 50 years later, nobody remembered the warning or the scheme. Meanwhile, imagine the Marines getting reports like, “They’re vampire monsters, with 3-inch fangs! We hear them clicking and screaming in the night, and they’re lightning fast! Help!” Then they get to the colony and find something like a [water deer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_deer#/media/File:Hydropotes_inermis_male.JPG). Half their calls are colonists overreacting to something that looks or sounds scary, just because it’s alien and weird, and the other half are things that are legitimately dangerous to lone, lightly armed civilians. It’s not that they don’t believe there’s something there, it’s just that they’ve gotten complacent and jaded, because they’re used to reports exaggerating threats. Add that to the fact that Ripley comes across as panicky and incoherent when they first meet her in person, and their attitude makes more sense. IIRC, people did continue to underestimate the xenomorphs until they encountered them directly, but no one who would logically be in the loop denied their existence after the first encounter between them and the Marines. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260/160 "2019-02-27T18:58:31Z")
Just learned that there are two tributes to \*Alien \*on Pluto’s moon, Charon: > **[Ripley (crater)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripley_(crater))** > > Ripley /ˈrɪpli/ is the unofficial name given to an impact crater on Pluto's moon Charon. It is named after the heroine Ellen Ripley in the science-fiction/horror film Alien. > This article about an extraterrestrial geological feature is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. > **[Nostromo Chasma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostromo_Chasma)** > > Nostromo Chasma /nɒsˈtroʊmoʊ ˈkæzmə/ is the unofficial name for a rift valley on Pluto's moon Charon. It was named after the fictional spacecraft in the science-fiction/horror film Alien, which in turn was named after the novel by Joseph Conrad. > > This astronomy-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aliens-so-what-were-the-colonial-marines-actually-prepared-for-tactically/711260.md?page=9)