# All Americans need education in Black studies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888 "2023-01-27T13:53:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/181 "2023-01-29T03:01:05Z")
Do kids no longer learn how Harriet Tubman and Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/182 "2023-01-29T03:06:11Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > The OP has made it abundantly clear that he or she views American history and Black Studies as completely separate things. What on earth are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/183 "2023-01-29T04:37:07Z")
Learning about AAVE in college made me more aware of racism than any purposeful campaign. That is just me, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/184 "2023-01-29T05:59:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What on earth are you talking about? I certainly cannot speak for @Bootb. My guess is it is the sense that the usual courses in American history students get through 12th grade do not do a good enough job at covering the Black experience in the US. Certainly they will cover some of it (probably, hard to avoid) but that a separate course is needed and it will be teaching something not found in a typical course on US history. @Acsenray mentioned earlier some classes that seemed a re-hash of other classes (lots of overlap) which I would think is a waste of time. You want there to be something different offered to expand the student’s knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/185 "2023-01-29T15:10:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Um, no. > > And, no. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What on earth are you talking about? I’m talking about this– > [@silenus](#): > > And what, exactly, are you going to replace with this course? PE? A foreign language? Or do we just demand that every high school student spend another hour a day in the classroom? > [@Johanna](#): > > American history, of course. We are not talking about mechanical objects, that wear out and get replaced with a replica. Given the context, if the OP were regarding American history and Black Studies as the same thing, there would be no point in replacing one with the other. Therefore, it is self-evident that in the OP’s view, these are different things. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/186 "2023-01-29T15:15:14Z")
I think a better way to think about it is that is proposing a different focus on much of the same underlying material ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/187 "2023-01-29T15:27:16Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Therefore, it is self-evident that in the OP’s view, these are different things. No, it’s not evident at all. In fact it’s a bizarre interpretation of the issue. If I want to have a class on English literature and a class on Shakespeare, does that mean I think that Shakespeare is not English literature? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/188 "2023-01-29T15:44:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Quarters are half-semesters. That’s not been my experience with academic quarters. There are three academic quarters in one year, making the other, the fourth, quarter the summer quarter which is the summer vacation. The academic quarters are: Fall, Winter, and Spring. When I attended a community college in Calfornia, they used the semester system. I had to get used to the quarter system immediately because I transferred to University of California at Davis, which uses a quarter system and has two summer sessions in addition. Another term in use has been trimester. The school where I teach now used to be on the trimester system; however, since just a few years ago, it’s on the semester system. [Here is a nice explanation of the various academic calendars used in the United States](https://www.studyusa.com/en/a/1235/what-is-the-difference-between-quarters-semesters-and-trimesters) and some helpful advice for students subjected to them. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/189 "2023-01-29T15:47:52Z")
In colleges, yes. In high school, no. We used to issue report cards 4 times a year. #1 and #3 were quarterly cards and didn’t go on your Permanent Record. They were just a head’s up to your parents. #2 and #4 were semester cards and counted. We’ve since done away with the quarterly cards, but classes still work on the quarter system, especially PE and a couple of mishmash classes. Several of the colleges I attended were organized the way **Monty** says. Most were straight semester. Always made it a pain to convert credit hours. I ended up having to take a class on “Opera” to fulfill a GE requirement because of that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/190 "2023-01-29T15:53:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If I want to have a class on English literature and a class on Shakespeare, does that mean I think that Shakespeare is not English literature? As an elective, no. But, if you wanted to make a Shakespeare class mandatory, then, for practicalities of time, the Shakespeare that is taught in English literature would be reduced or even eliminated. And that is the concern, that if we teach about Harriet Tubman in Black history, that’s likely to reduce the time spent teaching about her in American history. Once again, I think that the OP comes from good intention, and that intent should be recognized. But the OP’s solution is lacking, and will likely do more harm than good. I’d rather debate the ways of increasing the awareness of the history of Black people and other minorities in the classroom than whether or not the specific proposal of the OP is the way to go, I feel that part is fairly settled. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/191 "2023-01-29T15:56:27Z")
@silenus Thanks for the addendum! Fun aside: While I was attending Monterey Peninsula College (the local community college), one of my classmates was a student at California State University Monterey Bay and was only taking a course at MPC that was not available to him at CSU. That CSU campus worked on the quarter system, but MPC worked on the semester system. Said classmate evidently did not pay all that much attention to the course schedules for either school and na·ïvely assumed the schools had the same term breaks. He ended up with a lower than expected (but still passing, thankfully) grade in our course at MPC. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/192 "2023-01-29T16:18:36Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > That’s not been my experience with academic quarters. There are three academic quarters in one year, making the other, the fourth, quarter the summer quarter which is the summer vacation. The academic quarters are: Fall, Winter, and Spring. That’s in college and university. In junior and senior high school, a quarter is a half semester. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/193 "2023-01-29T16:24:52Z")
Some colleges have quarters that are half-semesters, too. Anyway, i think the post that brought it up was pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/194 "2023-01-29T16:49:37Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Therefore, it is self-evident that in the OP’s view, these are different things. First, that’s a terrible reading of what she said. Moreover, I think it’s a **deliberate** misreading. If you were confused, why not ask her if that’s what she meant, instead of flat-out claiming that she must have meant something so ridiculous? I can explain to you why it’s a terrible misreading, but if you’re determined to stick to that terrible misreading, there’s no point. ---
**Author:** ![SailorHG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SailorHG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SailorHG)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/195 "2023-01-29T19:37:34Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > The way to reach kids is through stories. Works great for adults, too! In my high school history classes (ca 1983) the only brush with racism that I remember was the day the instructor held up two posters for us. (The setting was a mock debate about the necessity of slavery.) On one poster was a drawing of a gorilla holding a banana. On the other, a picture of a black man holding a basketball. The “pro slavery” argument (cringe!) was that there was essentially no difference between the two pictures. It wasn’t until six months ago watching Lovecraft County on HBO that I learned about the Tulsa massacre and the lynching of Emmett Till. Or became aware of the struggles of everyday black life: sundown towns, the green book, and police brutality/indifference. It was a real eye-opener! Yes, the setting was sci-fi/horror, but that was just the context to tell these other troubling parts of American history. I’d recommend giving it a watch through if you haven’t seen the series already! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/196 "2023-01-29T20:02:46Z")
Yes, Tuscarora. Iroquoian speakers originally from North Carolina. Wyandot and Huron are two names for the same people. (Huron was a French exonym). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/197 "2023-01-29T20:09:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think a better way to think about it is that is proposing a different focus on much of the same underlying material That’s right! Think of _A People’s History of the United States_. I’m haunted by that line sung by Bob Marley and the Wailers: _ **“Half the story has never been told.”** _ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/198 "2023-01-29T20:24:33Z")
> [@SailorHG](#): > > It wasn’t until six months ago watching Lovecraft County on HBO that I learned about the Tulsa massacre and the lynching of Emmett Till. Or became aware of the struggles of everyday black life: sundown towns, the green book, and police brutality/indifference. It was a real eye-opener! This. I cannot think of any reason why white students should not be required to learn _all_ of this and have their eyes opened. I want SailorHG’s epiphany to spread through the whole nation. In the past few years, I’ve watched white person after white person literally gasp in horror to learn of these things for the first time, wondering why nobody had ever mentioned them before. I’ve seen how shaken it leaves them, pondering the unbelievable enormities of American racism, realizing how much of their worldview is drastically in need of revision. I believe in the disinfectant power of sunshine. Throw the shades open, let the sunlight stream into America’s brains. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/199 "2023-01-29T20:39:36Z")
A (sadly true) story that I found very illustrative of just how perverse slavery was was the story of one John Munroe Brazealle. The child of a slave and slave master (basically, the product of a rape), his father had at least deigned to take him and his mother, while he was still an infant, to Ohio to emancipate them. The father then married the mother, and returned with both to Mississippi. When the father died, as John was about 13 years old, his father left him his estate. But relatives of the father, John’s extended family, sued for the estate. Turns out, in Mississippi, slaves could not be freed except with the approval of the state legislature, and any slaves freed out of state could not return. So the Mississippi Supreme Court ruled for the relatives and declared (1) John was still a slave under Mississippi law, and (2) as a slave, could not inherit property. Therefore, the estate—with young John now considered to be _part of the estate, as property himself_—was given over to his relatives. I think it’s an impactful story because none of us can imagine what it would be like to actually be a slave. But we can all remember being 12 or 13, and most of us will have some sense of what it’s like to lose a father—perhaps even to lose a father while still a child. Now just imagine if, on top of that, having lived free all your life (as, again, a great many of us could imagine, thinking of oneself as a free human being, not property), you were told “You are not a person, you are property. You will not inherit your father’s estate, you are a part of it.” It’s perverse on so many levels, beginning with the enslavement and rape of a woman, ending in a literal child being told he is the mere property of greedy (and doubtless extraordinarily racist and hostile) relatives, who really just wanted to get at his daddy’s estate. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/200 "2023-01-29T20:59:33Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I cannot think of any reason why white students should not be required to learn _all_ of this and have their eyes opened. Not just white students (of course). All students, including Black. And not just the historic Black experience, but all ways and times that non-European\* people and peoples have been trod on, abused, and taken advantage of (\*and some Europeans like Irish and Italians at various times). Accurate historical context is absolutely necessary for understanding and acting on current issues. There doesn’t seem to be much debate about the need for people to understand this context. The debate seems to be mostly about how to make it happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888.md?page=11)