# All Americans need education in Black studies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888 "2023-01-27T13:53:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/61 "2023-01-27T16:50:48Z")
Can’t wait for racist parents to die off. We already tried that and it failed. God-damned racism has dug in its heels and built back up. It’s now approaching a major crisis point. We need more decisive action. Instilling knowledge in young minds is the surest way to correct the problem. Like I said, as much as I hated math class, it did me no harm and I even benefited. With maturity I can look back and understand that now better than when I was a 3rd grader. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/62 "2023-01-27T16:52:09Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > To “all lives matter,” the only response is “Wrong answer!” Not one person in this thread has said this, even indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/63 "2023-01-27T16:52:56Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Can’t wait for racist parents to die off. We already tried that and it failed. It sounds like you think that educating kids will override what they see and hear at home. Is there any evidence that will actually happen? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/64 "2023-01-27T16:56:29Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > It sounds like you think that educating kids will override what they see and hear at home. Is there any evidence that will actually happen? Well, kind of? I’ve seen polls that show the children of Evangelical Christians are more accepting of gay people then their parents were. But I don’t think that has anything to do with what they’re learning in school. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/65 "2023-01-27T16:59:02Z")
There’s tons of evidence that doing nothing is making it worse. Considering how mass educational programs have gone in other countries in the face of resistance, like Atatürk’s law requiring everyone to learn the Latin alphabet for Turkish. Oh, the reactionaries at the time _hated_ it. But now everyone accepts it as ordinary, no big deal. Yes, to spread knowledge will overcome ignorance. Otherwise, why is there education? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/66 "2023-01-27T16:59:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I took AP US History, and racial issues were downplayed to the basics, Malcolm X and W.E.B. Du Bois and MLK Jr. I took AP US History in the 1980s and my daughter took it in the 2010s. The material has changed markedly to incorporate more of Black US History. Back in the 1980s – at least at my school – even to learn the context of DuBois’ actions and writings required a deep dive into materials at the library. He’d get a cursory mention in a school-assigned textbook at best. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/67 "2023-01-27T17:02:11Z")
IMHO the solution to fighting racism is not mandating a course in Black studies but having a consistent series of courses in the Humanities (philosophy, history, art, etc). I doubt we can ever erase racism but I think the above would be a better route than teaching the history of a particular race. I think a course on the history of the US must include the Black experience. (That said, courses about the experiences of particular races should exist too…again IMHO.) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/68 "2023-01-27T17:02:19Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I took AP US History in the 1980s and my daughter took it in the 2010s. The material has changed markedly to incorporate more of Black US History. That makes sense. I hope the trend continues. I bet there’s still room for improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/69 "2023-01-27T17:03:17Z")
Quoting myself from the ATMB thread: I’m pretty unclear on what the proposal is. It goes back and forth between “every school” to “all Americans” without exception to “a full semester course”. Is this something you believe should be happening in every elementary, middle, and high school? Colleges and universities also? Something that all adults should also be required to attend? Do you think this should be a national law? Whom do you think should write the curricula? I know the details can get hashed out; but right now the proposal seems only one step less fanciful than demanding that “Every person should stop being racist, right now, without exception.” It’s unclear if you mean it in that “Everyone gets a pony” wishful thinking model, or if you believe it’s actually a pragmatic suggestion, or if it’s a thought experiement, or something else. You say in that thread that you’re serious. How do you imagine, in detail, this would work? (And I’m also serious in that I’d like to see any evidence that this call is coming from a meaningful number of Black activists or educators, and not just a Hot White Take). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/70 "2023-01-27T17:07:39Z")
What parts of American History would you want removed to make time for Black History? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/71 "2023-01-27T17:07:54Z")
1. Hire teachers qualified to teach Black studies. 2. Have them draw up syllabi, based on a recommended model supplied by Black studies subject matter experts at the Department of Education. 3. Schedule the classes and teach them. 4. Make the course mandatory for graduation, just like math and English are now. Make it mandatory in grade school and high school and undergraduate college. First grade is not too early to start; in fact, that would be best. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/72 "2023-01-27T17:09:50Z")
I see two issues that will likely never get resolved. The first is we need to get government out of making our education agenda, it should just me made by educators. I have a cousin that is a school teacher in Florida. She is required to agree to a list of items she is barred from mentioning in her class. This includes people like Rodney King and Malcolm X. Second, who writes this class. A class such as this could be studies of all the good things African Americans he done for this country to the polar opposite, all the bad things that have happened to African Americans in this country. There would likely be no point in this agenda that everyone would agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/73 "2023-01-27T17:10:13Z")
How do you have a US history course that doesn’t include how Black people were treated? I mean…there was a whole war about it (and then a century and more of civil rights battles…it is embedded in US history). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/74 "2023-01-27T17:11:45Z")
Black History **is** American History. That’s **Johanna** ’s point. We are just disagreeing on how to fix the problem. For reference, here is the current AP US History Concept Outline. Some Black History is there, just not enough. > **[ap-us-history-concept-outline-effective-fall-2019.pdf](https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/ap-us-history-concept-outline-effective-fall-2019.pdf)** > > 698.31 KB ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/75 "2023-01-27T17:12:08Z")
Then what do we have a Department of Education for? An objection like “what to include, this or that?” is easily answered. That’s what subject matter experts are for. You know, the same way it’s decided for literally every course in the world what the syllabus will have. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/76 "2023-01-27T17:12:16Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > - Hire teachers qualified to teach Black studies. > - Have them draw up syllabi, based on a recommended model supplied by Black studies subject matter experts at the Department of Education. > - Schedule the classes and teach them. > - Make the course mandatory for graduation, just like math and English are now. Make it mandatory in grade school and high school and undergraduate college. First grade is not too early to start; in fact, that would be best. I won’t keep asking, this’ll be the last time: _is this just your White American Hot Take_, or are you hearing from Black educators and activists and thinkers that this is what we need? Because it sure ain’t what I, in the trenches, hear. After this time, I’ll conclude that you’re not actually echoing a call from Black thinkers, and for whatever reason don’t think that’s important to do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/77 "2023-01-27T17:12:23Z")
I agree with you. Correction, modification and incorporation is a much better idea than to just scrap American History totally in favor of Black History. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/78 "2023-01-27T17:12:28Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > I have a cousin that is a school teacher in Florida. She is required to agree to a list of items she is barred from mentioning in her class. This includes people like Rodney King and Malcolm X. I know this is easy for me to say from 1000s of miles away with a safe job, but what the hell? If I were “barred” from mentioning Malcom X or Rodney King, (unless it’s a math class or something) I’d be teaching about him the very next day. And I’d get all my co-workers on board too. They can fire all of us, but how would that look? ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/79 "2023-01-27T17:13:00Z")
> **Hijack Hidden by WE?** > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > I mean…there was a whole war about it. > > Technically it was a war about states rights. Slavery was one of many things the southern states did not agree with. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/80 "2023-01-27T17:13:34Z")
**Modnote** : No, just no. We are not adding this debate into this thread. Drop it now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888.md?page=5)