# All Americans need education in Black studies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888 "2023-01-27T13:53:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/101 "2023-01-27T17:41:38Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Let me ask you all this: How do we account for all these well-meaning, educated, intelligent Americans unable to recognize racism when it’s right in front of them? Maybe they’re not “well-meaning” after all. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/102 "2023-01-27T17:47:08Z")
I really mean the genuinely well-meaning ones, like Whack-a-Mole, who I believe doesn’t have a racist bone in his body. He was sincerely stunned and disconcerted to learn that he was missing knowledge. I think we’ve all been in his shoes at one time or another. It’s unfair to Americans like him to leave them ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/103 "2023-01-27T17:50:27Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > He was sincerely stunned and disconcerted to learn that he was missing knowledge. Is this about the “uppity” thing? Missing something like that isn’t failing to recognize racism. It’s failure to know a cultural dog whistle. We all have blind spots, and they all won’t be covered in a comprehensive semester long course on American Racism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/104 "2023-01-27T17:51:43Z")
How would you get around the right-wing backlash that would happen if your proposal is brought forth? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/105 "2023-01-27T17:52:38Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I really mean the genuinely well-meaning ones, like Whack-a-Mole, who I believe doesn’t have a racist bone in his body. He was sincerely stunned and disconcerted to learn that he was missing knowledge. I think we’ve all been in his shoes at one time or another. It’s unfair to Americans like him to leave them ignorant. Whereas I’d say that @Whack-a-Mole’s ignorance about “uppity” is not the problem when compared to DeSantis and his ilk’s deliberate stoking of racist fears and hatred for their own political gain. You have, without consulting folks working on the issues, concocted a massive change to society that doesn’t address the very systemic issues that make the proposal unfeasible. Ibrim X. Kendi’s [How to Be an Antiracist](https://www.ibramxkendi.com/how-to-be-an-antiracist) might be a good resource for you. ---
**Author:** ![Cham2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Cham2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cham2)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/106 "2023-01-27T17:54:02Z")
You can’t force the average white person to care to know about Black history. A lot of them don’t think that it applies to their life after high school. It’s up to them to care if they want to learn about it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/107 "2023-01-27T17:55:17Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Let me ask you all this: How do we account for all these well-meaning, educated, intelligent Americans unable to recognize racism when it’s right in front of them? There have been plenty of “‘well-meaning’, educated, intelligent Americans” who were and are very intentional in their racism, many of them in the top ranks of government and industry. There are also plenty of educated, intelligent Americans who five years ago wouldn’t have openly spoken up about racism who now have “Black Lives Matter” posters in their front windows. > [@Johanna](#): > > I mean 10 years ago there weren’t governments actively _forbidding_ Black studies. Yes, this is a crisis. They didn’t have to because ten years ago there weren’t many school districts—at least, in the areas of concern—deliberately trying to incorporate black studies into curricula. As for DeSantis, he likes this because it is a hot button issue that his buddies at Fox News have already worked their viewers into a frenzy over. I’m not convinced that DeSantis actually cares all that much about it or is particularly racist; he just looked at how well Trump did at being nakedly hostile and thought to himself, “If that moron can ride that wave to the White House, why not me?” DeSantis is nakedly about his own self-interest and getting power by any means possible, and the best way to clobber him (other than catching him in bed with a dead girl or a live boy, if the current GOP would even care) is to foster infighting of Republicans against one another while the Democratic party takes a stab at showing alienated and disaffected voters of all stripes that they actually care about their concerns over that of their corporate benefactors. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/108 "2023-01-27T17:56:10Z")
That’s good information, thank you. I was simply supporting the efforts of the Black scholars who fought to establish the field of Black studies in the 1960s and I’ll defer to their judgment of course, whether in the '60s or the present day. I know I’m no expert on education and I’m stepping out of my lane here. I know that, all right? But the forces actively pushing racism right now made me cry out in exasperation. I wanted to make more than just a cri de cœur; I wanted to seek practical steps we can take right now, which is why I opened a debate and not a Pit thread. I want to see the energy used for wailing and gnashing of teeth channeled into effective action. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/109 "2023-01-27T17:56:34Z")
You can’t force them to care about chemistry, math, English or social studies either, but we still teach it to them. Or would you drop those classes too? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/110 "2023-01-27T17:57:39Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Let me ask you all this: How do we account for all these well-meaning, educated, intelligent Americans unable to recognize racism when it’s right in front of them? Maybe they do recognize it and don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/111 "2023-01-27T17:58:14Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I wanted to make more than just a cri de cœur; I wanted to seek practical steps we can take right now, which is why I opened a debate and not a Pit thread. I want to see wailing and gnashing of teeth energy channeled into effective action. And you are to be commended for that. But you have to realize that _we are on your side_. Nobody is saying your zeal is wrong. But a meaningful discussion of what to do and how to do it doesn’t have any room for “Wrong answer!” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/112 "2023-01-27T17:58:14Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > But the forces actively pushing racism right now made me cry out in exasperation. I wanted to make more than just a cri de cœur; I wanted to seek practical steps we can take right now, which is why I opened a debate and not a Pit thread. I understand and appreciate that. We gotta do something. But I can’t emphasize enough: _there are folks who have thought deeply about this_. And while it’s definitely worth thinking about where things were a half-century ago, there are people thinking deeply about this today, thinking about where things stand today and what needs to happen today. If you haven’t read any of the writers working on the issues in the 21st century, I think the first thing you can do is to fight your _own_ ignorance on the topic. Let your proposals be informed by modern thinkers addressing today’s problems. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/113 "2023-01-27T17:58:20Z")
I’m looking for the good in my fellow Americans! I know it’s there! It just needs encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/114 "2023-01-27T17:58:45Z")
I’m not an education professional, and I don’t know what schools are teaching now. But if they’re anything like my education in the 80s and 90s, they certainly are seriously lacking in teaching about how the systems and institutions of most of American history have contributed to and in many cases driven biased, discriminatory, and often violent mistreatment of Black people in the country. Not sure if the OP’s proposal achieves that, but it’s definitely a worthy and important goal. One element of ensuring Black children have the opportunity to succeed is how language is taught – the strong resistance to accepting that African American Vernacular English is a real dialect of English, rather than “bad English”, [is a big part of why many Black kids are left behind](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/04/the-code-switcher/554099/). And teaching other kids that AAVE is a real dialect, and not “bad English”, could also be a part of dismantling systems that reinforce discrimination and racism. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/115 "2023-01-27T17:59:13Z")
You mean like my neighbor that flies the Confederate Battle Flag to celebrate Juneteenth? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/116 "2023-01-27T17:59:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Let your proposals be informed by modern thinkers addressing today’s problems. Well, yeah, I want exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Cham2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Cham2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cham2)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/117 "2023-01-27T18:00:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or would you drop those classes too? No, keep those classes. But we have 30 year old white guys who are exposed to Black people in schools, media, most young white guys follow Black athletes more than their parents/grandparents did, listen to rap music and still shout the N word out like it’s nothing… **How can you change that?** ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/118 "2023-01-27T18:02:06Z")
Neighbors like that are the reason why we have to struggle to educate all Americans. Don’t let white Americans continue in ignorance about what racism does to their humanity. Give them better. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/119 "2023-01-27T18:05:05Z")
They’re just repeating what they hear while immersed in the rap milieu. How to change that? Take them aside and gently explain why the n word is never OK for white people. Maybe nobody has ever explained it to them before. To the larger issue, I think socializing with Black people and getting to know them well on an equal basis in society is the best thing the youth could be doing, so let’s support them in that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/120 "2023-01-27T18:06:12Z")
Just because you can’t change all minds is no reason to give up on changing some minds. Give those replacing those old bigots a chance my raising them on the whole of American History instead of just the parts that make Caucasians comfy and warm inside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888.md?page=7)