# All black people are not African American. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396 "2007-06-17T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/21 "2007-06-18T00:47:55Z")
[QUOTE=carterba] I have no trouble imagining that an American broadcaster could get so used to referring to American black people as “African American” that they automatically apply it to all black people without even thinking about what it means. [/QUOTE] The problem is that it is their job to get it right. I agree, they probably speak without thinking. Doesn’t make it right, or even acceptable. > [@](#): > > It’s just like how all sodas are called “Coke” in certain Southern dialects. Cite that all sodas are called Coke? It may be a generic term, but if you want Cheerwine you ask for a Cheerwine. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/22 "2007-06-18T00:52:04Z")
The OP is correct that it’s wrong to equate black and African-American, and I’ve seen such errors in the press. (For example, I remember an article at the time of the Nicole Brown Simpson/Ron Goldman murders about the “African-American” hairs found at the crime scene.) ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/23 "2007-06-18T00:57:23Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] The OP is correct that it’s wrong to equate black and African-American, and I’ve seen such errors in the press. (For example, I remember an article at the time of the Nicole Brown Simpson/Ron Goldman murders about the “African-American” hairs found at the crime scene.) [/QUOTE] No one has argued that. Seems to me that the OP asked “Am I being over critical or is this just a case of PC run amok?” Sure they were wrong, but some of us seem to put it in the category of dumb mistake rather than Hyper PCism run amock. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/24 "2007-06-18T01:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] … Cite that all sodas are called Coke? … [/QUOTE] [What is your generic term for a sweetened carbonated beverage?](http://cfprod.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_105.html) a. soda (52.97%) b. pop (25.08%) c. coke (12.38%) e. soft drink (5.89%) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/25 "2007-06-18T01:42:32Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] If they move to America they are African Americans. That is, if anyone is. [/QUOTE] That’s stupid. A South African who moves to the US is a South African-American. Doesn’t matter if they’re white or black. Yeah, it’s a little more awkward than Italian-American or Irish-American or Nigerian-American or Chinese-American or whatever, but it at least sticks to the standard of (generally) referring to country of origin rather than continent. African American, on the other hand, refers to the North American descendents of African slaves. They tend to share a common cultural identity. You may have noticed them. Unlike the other terms, it does not refer to country of origin. It’s what some people like to call an “exception.” Seriously, why so supposedly clever people have a such a hard time with this? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/26 "2007-06-18T01:50:45Z")
Just when I thought this subject had been flogged to death… –ywtf, Native American (because I was born in Decatur, Ga) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/27 "2007-06-18T01:56:33Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] –ywtf, Native American (because I was born in Decatur, Ga) [/QUOTE] Oh piffle. Everyone knows that Georgia is a country in western Asia. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/28 "2007-06-18T01:57:38Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] That’s stupid. African American, on the other hand, refers to the North American descendents of African slaves. They tend to share a common cultural identity. You may have noticed them. Seriously, why so supposedly clever people have a such a hard time with this? [/QUOTE] So what box does the black guy from Belize who became an american citizen check on his college application? For fuck sake, African American leaders have been refering to the African American community for a long time. Are you suggesting that they are only refering to a limited group descended from slaves, or do you think they are refering to all black Americans? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/29 "2007-06-18T02:02:26Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] So what box does the black guy from Belize who became an american citizen check on his college application? [/QUOTE] I don’t know. What does someone with a Filipino mother and a half-Kenyan, half-Spaniard father check on his college application? He writes something in or picks something that pleases him and goes with it. That forms which ask for race sometimes give unnecessarily limited options is not terribly convincing to me either way on the proper appropriateness and scope of various terms. > [@](#): > > For fuck sake, African American leaders have been refering to the African American community for a long time. Are you suggesting that they are only refering to a limited group descended from slaves, or do you think they are refering to all black Americans? I think their base of support is, by and large, the group descended from slaves, and they are primarily talking to those, though, of course, they intend their civil rights messages to apply to all humans. The slave-descended group form a cultural community which those who only recently immigrated from Africa are no more a part of than the average white American is a member of the culture of Europe. It can be useful, therefore, to distinguish between the two. As for whether the term “African-American” is actually used in that manner, well, that’s an empirical question. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/30 "2007-06-18T02:50:49Z")
'Course all black people aren’t African-American! There’s _African-Americans_, and there’s _ **niggers** _! Right? Am I right? Who’s with me? Man. There really is no way to make that bit work when you’re white, is there? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/31 "2007-06-18T02:56:48Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] As others have pointed out in this thread, it’s no longer considered appropriate to use the term “black,” . . . [/QUOTE] Actually, no person I know whose ancestors were sub-Saharan Africans uses any term other than black. The majority of polls I have seen (which shift frequently, based somewhat on demographics and somewhat on how the question is posed) have tended to give a slight preference among the members of that community to “black,” as well. Therefore, I tend to use the word black as shorter, less confusing, less likely to irritate one of the anti-PC _offenderatti_, and much less likely to irritate my associates. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/32 "2007-06-18T03:00:08Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Thanks Tom. But I never suggested that referring to a black guy from outside the US as AA wasn’t silly, just that maybe it was just a dumb mistake. [/QUOTE] Actually, I was supporting you with my reference to “over-thinking courtesy, touchy race relations, and language and coming up with the wrong word.” I then expanded the language description a bit based on some of the other comments that were drifting through the thread by that point. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/33 "2007-06-18T03:02:53Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] “generic” means “can be used to refer to all soda”, in some sense. And that 12.38% is by and large concentrated in the South; look at the top map in the link you were given. [/QUOTE] The graph was in response for a request that ALL sodas are called “coke.” 12.38% is a far cry from all, even if the graph \*only \*represented the South. > [@](#): > > Absolutely. Because a Native American is anyone who was born in America. And the term “white person” is properly used to refer only to albinos. Because all language can be understood compositionally, with exacting literality. If I have learned anything here at the SDMB, it is that words mean whatever people want them to mean. Feel free to think that only albinos are white, or that native and Native mean the same thing. I have not standing to argue. However, any dark-skinned person (or sometimes not so dark-skinned) who identifies as African-American is counted as one, regardless of whether he is descended from African slaves. At least far as the government is concerned. As far as I am concerned, African-American is a meaningless term. I’ve been told in this very forum that if you are raised by African-Americans, you get to call yourself one, and anyone who questions it is a bigot. To exclude white South Africans seems downright inhospitable to me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/34 "2007-06-18T03:12:42Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] To exclude white South Africans seems downright inhospitable to me. [/QUOTE] Got any examples of white South Africans immigrating to the U.S. and fleeing home in tears because they were prohibited from identfying themselves as “African Americans”? Inhospitable? It is just an attempt to use words in ways that people will recognize what is being said. Noting that “African American” is a flawed coinage is not helped by being silly, trying to wedge in separate meanings that everyone knows in advance break the rules and do not convey the clearly accepted meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Defective\_Detective](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d2c977/32.png) [@Defective\_Detective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defective_Detective)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/35 "2007-06-18T03:14:58Z")
It’s all bullshit. I’ve never heard an announcer for the Olympics refer to “that African-Englishman” or “that African-Frenchman,” (It’s just an Englishman or a Frenchman), yet we hear “African-American” all the time. A label that denotes the country of origin can be helpful in some situations, but what the fuck does the color of a man’s skin have to do with anything? Never mind, don’t answer, that’s a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/36 "2007-06-18T03:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Got any examples of white South Africans immigrating to the U.S. and fleeing home in tears because they were prohibited from identfying themselves as “African Americans”? [/QUOTE] No. Would it be pertinent if I did? Has anyone up to now said anything about immigrants fleeing in tears? Does a South African even have to give a shit in order for for the term “African-American” to have a specific meaning? Was there anything in the OP, for example, that addressed such issues? > [@](#): > > Inhospitable? It is just an attempt to use words in ways that people will recognize what is being said. Noting that “African American” is a flawed coinage is not helped by being silly, trying to wedge in separate meanings that everyone knows in advance break the rules and do not convey the clearly accepted meaning. Everyone knows? Really? As I said, if I have learned anything here at the Dope it is that words mean what anyone wants them to. > [@](#): > > `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.’ > `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that’s all.’ Except, I guess, when\* everyone knows\* what they mean. Yep, down the rabbit hole it is. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/37 "2007-06-18T03:27:51Z")
So, hmm… what is wrong with “black”? As a matter of fact I almost never identify myself as “black” but as _mulatto_. Neither word is pejorative where I come from and they describe perfectly well what I am trying to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/38 "2007-06-18T03:37:37Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] 'Course all black people aren’t African-American! There’s _African-Americans_, and there’s _ **niggers** _! Right? Am I right? Who’s with me? Man. There really is no way to make that bit work when you’re white, is there? [/QUOTE] Overreaction–Party of one. **ETA:** : In retrospect, I think you were joking. Me fail sarcasm? That’s unpossible. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/39 "2007-06-18T03:38:36Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Has anyone up to now said anything about immigrants fleeing in tears? [/QUOTE] You were lamenting that the denial of a word to a particular group was inhospitable. I just wondered if you had actually seen anyone suffer for such inhospitality. [QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Except, I guess, when everyone knows what they mean. [/QUOTE] You are the one assigning a different meaning to a phrase that has been current in American English for close to twenty years and insisting on your right to assign it in a different usage. The role of Hunpty Dumpty, in tonight’s performance, will be played by **Contrapuntal**. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396/40 "2007-06-18T03:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The graph was in response for a request that ALL sodas are called “coke.” 12.38% is a far cry from all, even if the graph \*only \*represented the South. [/QUOTE] 12.38% represented the entire country. Therefore, the percentage of the South it represented may well have been much closer to 100%, especially if we limited our focus to, say, the area around Atlanta. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-black-people-are-not-african-american/408396.md?page=3)