# All cars should be required to have E-Z Pass/RFID technology **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379 "2007-10-28T22:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/161 "2007-10-30T16:57:19Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] What if cars were required to be outfitted with a transponder that identifies them as a car? For use with autopilot systems so I could let the computer drive me wherever I was going. Would that intrude upon civil liberties? [/QUOTE] What autopilot systems? Would the autopilot systems be required? Why require the car to have a transponder? Just put one in yourself if you want to use the autopilot. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/162 "2007-10-30T21:29:17Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] I’m all for transparency in how a business conducts it’s affairs, but Sarbanes-Oxley doesn’t do that, and hinders the operation of businesses. And I _don’t_ need corporate transparency to the point where I know every time the CEO goes to take a dump. [/quote] I’m not talking just about Sarbanes-Oxley. I’m talking about disclosure rules that go back a lot further. > [@](#): > > Only if you start with the presumption that humans are predisposed to murder one another. That’s clearly **not** the case, since no sane person objects to murder being a crime. I don’t know what you mean by “predisposed.” In my opinion, a lot more people would commit murder if they thought they would get away with it. Would those same people agree in principle to a law banning murder? Possibly, but I don’t see how it’s relevant. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/163 "2007-10-30T21:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] You want me to install a piece of equipment in my car so that a meter maid, who’s standing there, staring at the fucking thing, doesn’t dork up writing down the license plate number? [/quote] Nope. You appear to be missing my point. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/164 "2007-10-30T21:33:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] If what you are saying is that all you have to do around here to avoid defending your opinion with facts is to qualify your opinion with a statement indicating that you have no idea what you’re talking about, [/quote] That’s not what I’m saying. > [@](#): > > And, I don’t believe you have offered any argument to rebut explanations of why tagging a car with a license plate is not the same as tagging it with RFID technology. But I’m not saying it’s the same thing. I’m saying it’s the same as far as the principle is concerned. There is a difference which I don’t think you are facing. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/165 "2007-10-30T21:34:30Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] That’s not what I’m saying. But I’m not saying it’s the same thing. I’m saying it’s the same as far as the principle is concerned. There is a difference which I don’t think you are facing. [/QUOTE] No, the principle is different. The purpose of a license plate is not to spy on every movement a car makes. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/166 "2007-10-30T21:38:48Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] No, the principle is different. The purpose of a license plate is not to spy on every movement a car makes. [/QUOTE] Ok, so if a law was passed requiring EZ-Pass-like devices on every car, and the purpose of the law was to aid in toll collection as well as traffic enforcement (just like license plates), you wouldn’t have any objection, in principle, to the law? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/167 "2007-10-30T21:40:42Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Ok, so if a law was passed requiring EZ-Pass-like devices on every car, and the purpose of the law was to aid in toll collection as well as traffic enforcement (just like license plates), you wouldn’t have any objection, in principle, to the law? [/QUOTE] Is traffic enforcement the purpose of a license plate? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/168 "2007-10-30T21:41:47Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Is traffic enforcement the purpose of a license plate? [/QUOTE] I can’t think of any other reason to require that the plate be illuminated (and not obstructed). Can you? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/169 "2007-10-30T21:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I can’t think of any other reason to require that the plate be illuminated (and not obstructed). Can you? [/QUOTE] So that it can be read? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/170 "2007-10-30T22:00:58Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] So that it can be read? [/QUOTE] Read by whom and for what reason? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/171 "2007-10-30T22:07:02Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Read by whom and for what reason? [/QUOTE] The license plate shows that car has been registered by the state and the appropriate fees paid. It is also used to identify the owner of the car. Are you suggesting that the police would be unable to apprehend drivers who violate traffic laws if they simply removed the license plate? It seem counter intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/172 "2007-10-30T22:10:49Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The license plate shows that car has been registered by the state and the appropriate fees paid. It is also used to identify the owner of the car. [/quote] For the sake of argument, let’s assume that your reasons are the correct ones. Now suppose that the legislature passes a law requiring EZ-Pass-like devices be mounted on cars for the exact same reason that license plates are required. Would you have any objections in principle to such a law? > [@](#): > > Are you suggesting that the police would be unable to apprehend drivers who violate traffic laws if they simply removed the license plate? No. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/173 "2007-10-30T22:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The license plate shows that car has been registered by the state and the appropriate fees paid. It is also used to identify the owner of the car. [/quote] An RFID would be an equally effective way of doing the same, no? > [@](#): > > Are you suggesting that the police would be unable to apprehend drivers who violate traffic laws if they simply removed the license plate? In certain situations, yes. Red light cameras, speed cameras, eyewitnesses at hit-and-run accidents, civilians phoning in complaints about erratic driving, one police officer relaying information to another, etc. all rely on the license plate. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/174 "2007-10-30T22:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Now suppose that the legislature passes a law requiring EZ-Pass-like devices be mounted on cars for the exact same reason that license plates are required. Would you have any objections in principle to such a law? [/QUOTE] The problem is that your hypothetical involves the federal government, which, as far as I know, is not in the business of traffic control. Having said that, I don’t see how they could serve the same purpose. would every tow truck driver, meter maid, highway patrolman, etc. have a monitoring device? Would they only activate it when there was a suspicion of a violation? As has been pointed out _ad nauseum_, it is the passive collection of individual ID information in the absence any connection with a suspected crime, and the correlation of that with a specific location, that is offensive. What you are suggesting, to use an analogy of yours, is exactly what Nifong did when he requested DNA from everyone on the LAX team, whether they fit the witness ID or not. Absent reasonable suspicion of a crime, the state has no interest in how and where I spend my time. So, unless your EZPass hypothetical only involves retrieving and correlating the information after reasonable cause has been established, which ASAIK is not how EZPass works, then yes, I would object in principle. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/175 "2007-10-30T22:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] An RFID would be an equally effective way of doing the same, no? [/QUOTE] Only for those who have a monitoring device. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/176 "2007-10-30T22:28:15Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] would every tow truck driver, meter maid, highway patrolman, etc. have a monitoring device? [/quote] I assume the RFID would supplement a conventional license plate. > [@](#): > > Absent reasonable suspicion of a crime, the state has no interest in how and where I spend my time. But the state has the right and responsibility to regulate road usage, does it not? Use of the highway is not a right, it’s a privilege granted to you by the state under certain conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/177 "2007-10-30T22:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] I assume the RFID would supplement a conventional license plate. [/QUOTE] Why, if it is only equally effective? What would be the point? > [@](#): > > But the state has the right and responsibility to regulate road usage, does it not? The state does. The federal government does not. And it does not need to know where I am every minute I am driving in order to “regulate road usage.” That is exactly the point I and others have been trying to make. > [@](#): > > Use of the highway is not a right, it’s a privilege granted to you by the state under certain conditions. Thanks for the update. Have I asserted otherwise, Or are you just feeling expansive? I am unclear what this has to do with all cars sold in America being required to have an EZPass device installed. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/178 "2007-10-30T23:06:08Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The state does. The federal government does not. [/quote] OK, so what if the RFID was issued by the state? > [@](#): > > And it does not need to know where I am every minute I am driving in order to “regulate road usage.” That is exactly the point I and others have been trying to make. And it doesn’t **need** to issue license plates either, but it helps. If the RFID helps regulate road usage more efficiently, I’m all for it. > [@](#): > > Thanks for the update. Have I asserted otherwise, Or are you just feeling expansive? I am unclear what this has to do with all cars sold in America being required to have an EZPass device installed. I reminded you because you were making comparisons with DNA testing of certain groups. There’s a huge difference between tracking individuals and tracking automobiles. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/179 "2007-10-30T23:14:22Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] There’s a huge difference between tracking individuals and tracking automobiles. [/QUOTE] If you honestly believe this, then I fear that a meeting of the minds will be difficult. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379/180 "2007-10-30T23:27:47Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] If you honestly believe this, then I fear that a meeting of the minds will be difficult. [/QUOTE] So, in your mind, a roadside camera that captures the license plate of every car passing by is equivalent to a road block where every occupant of every vehicle is required to present a photo ID? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-cars-should-be-required-to-have-e-z-pass-rfid-technology/424379.md?page=10)