# All Earth's Life is at Stake, Would You Still Eschew Torture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555 "2003-03-15T07:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/1 "2003-03-15T07:15:21Z")
Where do you draw the line? Anyone … feel free to take your best shot. I gladly invite your finest effort, **McDuff**. Please give it the old college try, **minty green**. You might know my answer but I’m not sure you know me whatsoever. _ **SCENARIO** _ You are abducted by infinitely more powerful alien life forms and our Earth’s singular chance for survival utterly hinges, both critically and solely, _only_ upon yours and no one else’s, _one time_, **never-again-to-be-repeated** chance whereby the the solitary and all-time historically singular use of irrefutably _excruciating_ and **agonizing** physical TORTURE shall correctly and reliably extract valid and certifiable information that would preserve all life on this planet. _ **QUESTION** _ Would you do so, only one time in your entire life without repetition in all of humanity’s history, in order to save all organisms on this planet? [Karl Malden] What will you do? What will you do? [/Karl Malden] Face the question squarely. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/2 "2003-03-15T07:19:10Z")
I’m not sure if taking a hypothetical to the extreme situation necessarily proves anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/3 "2003-03-15T11:03:57Z")
I’d buy all the Earth’s water, then trade it to a giant squid for a force field to protect the planet from invaders. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/4 "2003-03-15T11:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > You might know my answer but I’m not sure you know me whatsoever. I think you just described the flaw with every possible answer (all both of them) here. Personally, I’d flip a coin. ---
**Author:** ![kitarak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kitarak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitarak)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/5 "2003-03-15T11:39:01Z")
Well, first the obligatory statement that I think it’s a really stupid scenario. That being said, I would use torture without question. I’d hate myself for it, but that wouldn’t stop me. I’m not going to take a moral stand if it’s going to cost that many lives; it wouldn’t even need to be the whole world - I’d be willing to do this for substantially fewer, although I can’t say exactly how few. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/6 "2003-03-15T13:05:43Z")
I’ll go with **Mr2001** ’s answer, with the caveat that the state maintain control of the lighthouses. ---
**Author:** ![TheArchmage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@TheArchmage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheArchmage)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/7 "2003-03-15T13:19:15Z")
Xenophon41, you can’t be serious! Since when have lighthouses EVER been able to be controlled?! Evil, I tell you! Evil! ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/8 "2003-03-15T13:22:38Z")
No, I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/9 "2003-03-15T14:57:55Z")
Obviously the only sane response would be to upload a computer virus into the aliens’ mothership, thereby destroying it. Seriously, if placed in a situation like this, I’d have to quote Bruce Campbell: “So, aliens… am I your little monkey?” Because if they’ve come all the way to Earth just to present this ridiculous choice, there’s no guarantee that tomorrow they won’t show up again and demand that we all torture our closest relatives, or our planet will be destroyed. Rather than jump through endless hoops, I’d rather go down while giving the aliens the biggest finger imaginable. And I think I’ve seen enough \*\*Twilight Zone \*\* episodes to know how this one comes out, anyway. The guy agonizes over it and finally decides to go with the torture, at which point the aliens look sorrowful and say: "_Our hope was that you would prove yourself a species capable of living – or dying – by your moral beliefs, and thus worthy of a place in the Galaxy. Since you have demonstrated that you value survival more than compassion, your species shall be imprisoned in darkness…forever."_ As a look of dawning horror appears on the guy’s face, Rod Serling steps out from behind a shrub and intones: _“We pride ourselves on our moral fiber; believing that our values and ethics make up what it means to be human. But what if others hold us to the same values we hold ourselves? Here, one man has been judged, and all of humanity has been found wanting…in the **Twilight Zone.** ”_ ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/10 "2003-03-15T15:19:30Z")
This is what happens when a superlative force meets a hypothetical wall: we enter the nonsensphere. Yes I would torture everyone, and maybe kick some puppies and kittens too, if it would keep them durned aliens quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/11 "2003-03-15T16:50:36Z")
I’d use torture. I’m not 100 percent sure where I’d draw the line, but the survival of humanity is clearly on the side that includes torture, IMO. Yeah, it’s a silly scenario, but I think it’s a useful thought experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/12 "2003-03-15T17:30:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*This is what happens when a superlative force meets a hypothetical wall: we enter the nonsensphere. > \*\* rofl - I think I finally found a sig if you dont mind 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/13 "2003-03-15T17:43:40Z")
Isn’t this sort of thing a logical fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/14 "2003-03-15T19:26:36Z")
Screw the Earth. No torture. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/15 "2003-03-15T21:10:30Z")
One more vote for giving the aliens the finger, and saying I’d rather die than be a guinea pig in their little experiment. ---
**Author:** ![McDuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@McDuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDuff)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/16 "2003-03-15T22:52:43Z")
What an interesting little hypothetical conundrum. Given the obvious gravity of this decision, as apparently the whole of the planet Earth depends on my choice, I’m afraid I can’t make any armchair decisions without having more information. For example, if this alien force is so much more fantastically powerful than us, how can I torture them? Am I going to play Tom Jones at them so that their superintelligent heads explode? How can I be certain that **Terrafel** ’s Twilight Zone theory is wrong? You need to give me some more clues here, if I’m going to make this absolutely once in a lifetime everyone depends on it decision, aren’t I? But, before you clue me in, can I just ask: what does this have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/17 "2003-03-15T23:01:15Z")
Zenster, given a simlair set of conditions (i.e. the only way to save the Earth is via a morally repugnant act)would you eschew paedophilia? ---
**Author:** ![McDuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@McDuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDuff)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/18 "2003-03-15T23:07:19Z")
“If you need me, I’ll be walking away from Omelas” ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/19 "2003-03-15T23:20:31Z")
Guinistasia: > [@](#): > > Isn’t this sort of thing a logical fallacy? I think it might be. What about this: would you torture someone, if doing so would save them from eternal torture in hell, and they begged you to do it? I guess I would have to do it at that point, but I think there is a fallacy here. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555/20 "2003-03-15T23:50:05Z")
Actually I don’t think it’s a fallacy unless you are trying to infer some sort of double standard on the part of the answerer. It’s a legitimate question though I don’t think it’s very useful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-earths-life-is-at-stake-would-you-still-eschew-torture/161555.md?page=2)