# All hail the conquering hero: Bush in Baghdad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594 "2003-11-27T17:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![cedric45](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@cedric45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedric45)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/181 "2003-11-28T17:09:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*What a shallow, transparent, meaningless, cynical, calculated, self-serving, thoroughly political and insincere thing to. This guy makes me sick. Too bad he couldn’t show up during Nam. > > Has he apologized to the troops for lying to them and for sending them to get killed in the desert for no reason? > > What an unbelievable scumbag this guy is. Let’s not forget he is a wartime deserter. \*\* There’s no desert in Bosnia! And the thread is about Bush NOT Clinton! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cedric45](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@cedric45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedric45)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/182 "2003-11-28T17:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*C’mon, Adaher, it’s been pointed out to you before … a lot of us liberals could really get behind a systematic attack on tyrants by the U.S., if we went about it consistently. The problem is, Iraq doesn’t strike us as part of a systematic, worldwide campaign to destroy tyranny, but rather a one-off, opportunistic move designed to secure America’s oil supply and make up for Papa Bush’s Big Mistake. \*\* How in the hell do you expect to “really get behind a systematic attack on tyrants by the US if we went about it consistently” if you cannot definately “secure America’s oil supply”? EVERYTHING depends on oil and if you ain’t got it, the most you can do is stand around and scratch your ass. Oops, I forgot that’s what liberals do best! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/183 "2003-11-28T18:26:57Z")
It’s not America’s oil supply, it’s _Iraq’s_ oil supply. The US doesn’t have the slightest claim to to it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/184 "2003-11-28T18:27:55Z")
Who’s got time to stand around and scratch ass? We’re busy undermining and corrupting everything that is good and decent in America. Have you any idea how complicated it is pushing legislation forcing Eagle Scouts into gay marriages? Not to mention driving truckloads of athiest literature and porno to all our elementary schools! I mean, there’s a _lot_ of them! My Goddess, you have no _idea_ how busy we are! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/185 "2003-11-28T18:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*It’s not America’s oil supply, it’s _Iraq’s_ oil supply. The US doesn’t have the slightest claim to to it. \*\* Hey, we’re just taking what’s ours! It’s our planet, the rest of 'em just live here at our sufferance. Maybe possession is nine points of the law, but an armored division _is_ the law. A real American would already know that. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/186 "2003-11-28T18:33:05Z")
From Mr. B > [@](#): > > xtisme: are we in the Pit already? The “vitriol,” indeed – why, you read like a bar of mint soap. lol…I always wanted to read like a bar of mint soap. Thanks!! (I just wish I knew what this means. I’m sure its an insult, but I really need a translation to fully appreciate it! :)) I’m in awe of you, Mr. B…your ranting goes far beyond anything I’ve ever witnessed before. /em bows to the master From elucidator > [@](#): > > Who’s got time to stand around and scratch ass? We’re busy undermining and corrupting everything that is good and decent in America. Have you any idea how complicated it is pushing legislation forcing Eagle Scouts into gay marriages? Not to mention driving truckloads of athiest literature and porno to all our elementary schools! I mean, there’s a lot of them! My Goddess, you have no idea how busy we are! Now THIS is great stuff! lol! I love it! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/187 "2003-11-28T18:36:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*More spew, albeit a perceived comeback at a non-slight. The other poster admitted that all nations act hypocritically. > > One thing you don’t see much in other nations is introspection. We often find fault with our nation. When know-it-all foreigeners with first hand knowledge of the situation on the ground – superior to our moronic “grunts” that are actually there I presume – preach the same “stupid American” crap OVER AND OVER, I can’t help but notice. Aldebaran, same deal. \*\* ``` Well we get hit by the same moronic "true" statements of: ``` “America is moral” and “America is good” over and over. Plus some even add that Israel is Good and moral all the time. I can’t help but notice. ``` At least our "know-it-all" doesn't involve God is on our side... or foreigners getting shot and "liberated" for their own good. ``` ---
**Author:** ![DeadJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@DeadJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadJesus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/188 "2003-11-28T19:02:26Z")
I just have one question. Why didn’t Bush visit the troops in Afghanistan? Don’t they deserve a morale boost as well, considering the deteriorating situation over there and the fact that the war on Iraq has drained resources away from their fight against the terrorist who were truly responsible for 9/11? For the benefit of the poster who chuckled about Sen. Clinton’s remakes concerning not abandoning Afghanistan, no news doesn’t mean good news: [A dearth of troops](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101031201-548999,00.html) [Operatin Forgotten](http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1084772,00.html) [Plea for security rethink as French aid worker is buried](http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1089991,00.html) [Moving targets](http://www.msnbc.com/news/997146.asp?0cl=c1) I know what would have made all the troops in Iraq even happier: spending the rest of the holidays with their loved ones. It certainly would make their families back home happy as well. It is nice that Bush took the time to drop by for a few hours but that doesn’t take away from the fact that the Iraq war (unlike Afghanistan) was a needless one. There was no imminent threat, no connection to 9/11, no WMDs. Our soldiers don’t have to be there getting killed especially since, despite what Bush told them, the administration intends to immediately hand over power to the Iraqis and pull out before election time rolls around. Why would Bush do this if victory in Iraq is key to the war on terror? Think about that while you’re stuffing yourselves with leftovers safely at home. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/189 "2003-11-28T19:04:37Z")
Some relatively recent presidential trips to war zones: • 1952: Dwight David Eisenhower, then president-elect, visited Korea. • 1966 and 1967: President Lyndon Johnson made two wartime trips to troops in Vietnam. • 1969: President Richard Nixon visited troops in Vietnam. • 1990: President George H.W. Bush visited U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia on Thanksgiving Day in the run-up to the Gulf War. • 1999: President Bill Clinton addressed Kosovar refugees and NATO military personnel in Macedonia, two weeks after NATO airstrikes in Kosovo. • 2003: President Bush pays a Thanksgiving Day visit to U.S. troops in Baghdad. Source: The Associated Press Hm. Seems that we have a tie: 3 Democrats and 3 Republicans…unless you count _both_ of LBJ’s trips. Then the Dems lead by 1. But, if you discount Ike’s trip because he wasn’t sworn in yet, it’s tied again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/190 "2003-11-28T19:15:52Z")
The anti-Bush crowd here could take a cue from Wes Clarke: > [@](#): > > Matt Bennett, the communications director for Wesley Clarke said: “We’re not going to throw stones at the guy for trying to do a nice thing for the troops. When the president goes and spends time with the troppos, that’s a good thing.” That’s a classy statement. There are plenty of things to criticize Bush for (including starting this war in the first place). But attacking him for visiting the troops is assinine beyond comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/191 "2003-11-28T19:17:30Z")
Sorry. That was “troops”, obviously. Quoting from the local paper, which didn’t have a link, so I had to type it manually. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/192 "2003-11-28T19:19:05Z")
I’m starting to suspect that Bush has a double. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/193 "2003-11-28T19:24:26Z")
**xtisme** : your post sounded like Dr. E. H. [Bronner](http://www.drbronner.com/story.html), who wraps his bars of soap in positively resplendent [rants](http://www.drbronner.com/labels/pepmt.pdf) sup[/sup]. Sorry for talking over your head. 🙂 And thank you for the insight; since you dismissed my double-post as peroration, I’ll endeavor to _CNN-ify_ my Great Debates dialog. **Rysdad** : thank you for the history. So the last sitting CinC to perform such a visit was President Nixon. During the war in and with Viet Nam. I think that is significant. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/194 "2003-11-28T19:39:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*So the last sitting CinC to perform such a visit was President Nixon. During the war in and with Viet Nam. I think that is significant. \*\* Doesn’t Macedonia count? I mean, bombs were dropping only two weeks prior to President Clinton’s visit. ---
**Author:** ![happytrails](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c2a13f/32.png) [@happytrails](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happytrails)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/195 "2003-11-28T19:39:40Z")
Bush shoulda been on his knees, begging for the troops’ forgiveness. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/196 "2003-11-28T19:47:22Z")
From Mr. B > [@](#): > > xtisme: your post sounded like Dr. E. H. Bronner, who wraps his bars of soap in positively resplendent rants (PDF). Sorry for talking over your head. Ah yes…Dr. Bonner. How could I have ever missed your reference. lol. I wasn’t aware he MADE mint soap, but thanks for the tip for future reference. I love his vanilla soap. From Mr. B > [@](#): > > And thank you for the insight; since you dismissed my double-post as peroration, I’ll endeavor to CNN-ify my Great Debates dialog. Oh goodie. I await with breathlessly with hopeful anticipation for your next pearls of wisdom. 🙂 Reguards, XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/197 "2003-11-28T19:48:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*…So the last sitting CinC to perform such a visit was President Nixon. During the war in and with Viet Nam. I think that is significant. \*\* I remember. As I recall, he was greeted with wild enthusiasm when he gave a speech lauding the troops patriotism and courage. Tough crowd. Kind of like when GeeDubya dares to give a speech before the Heritage Foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/198 "2003-11-28T19:54:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > So the last sitting CinC to perform such a visit was President Nixon. During the war in and with Viet Nam. I think that is significant. Well no. Remember that Bush declared major combat _over_ several months ago. That puts his trip on a par with the Clinton visit to Kosovo. One unintended consequence of this trip may be to put the final nail in the coffin of the party line that everything is peachy in Iraq. On another front, the newsies are already spinning madly on how the Iraqi man on the street felt about the visit. Plus or minus, the trip is sure to have a big impact over there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/199 "2003-11-28T19:58:41Z")
Yeah. I have little doubt that all the Iraqi people who saw him were mightily impressed. Both of them. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/200 "2003-11-28T20:09:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rysdad \* > > Doesn’t Macedonia count? I mean, bombs were dropping only two weeks prior to President Clinton’s visit. Sure, but that was NATO. [ul][_]The United States (or NATO, for that matter) wasn’t at war with Macedonia. [_]While the “major combat operations” have been declared complete (I clearly remember the logo), we are now involved in a guerrilla war with Iraq.This guerrilla war in Iraq includes stepped-up operations like Iron Hammer. [/ul]President Bush’s visit has significant parallels to President Nixon’s visit, when “hearts and minds” were largely off the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594.md?page=11)