# All hail the conquering hero: Bush in Baghdad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594 "2003-11-27T17:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/21 "2003-11-27T19:45:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*Turn on one of the cable news channels right now and you’ll see **he’s dressed in civilian clothes.** I’d give an internet cite, but google isn’t turning one up right now. \*\* [The BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3244620.stm) doesn’t have all its staff on holiday, so is updating its web site. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/22 "2003-11-27T19:55:37Z")
I think it was a smart move that is going to play well with most Americans. I seem to remember a while back, around when Blair visited Iraq, that Bush-bashers on this board were attacking Bush for not having visited Iraq. Now that he’s done so, it seems they REALLY think him visiting is a bad thing. It’s so IMPERIAL to visit the troops he sent on this mission…yeah… :rolleyes: Damned if he does, damned if he don’t…he may as well be damned and not piss of his constituency than be damned and piss off everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/23 "2003-11-27T20:02:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*Can Bush take a piss without the Bush-bashers on this board drawing conclusions of nefarious political maneuverings?B] In a word: yes. I’m no fan of Bush, but I give him a break quite often… perhaps more often than I should, even. _This_, however… this simply reeks of “PR event.” The timing is questionable, and the way it plays is predictably spin-worthy. It feels less than genuine. Much less. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/24 "2003-11-27T20:10:46Z")
But, to be fair, they all do it (I can practically HEAR the eyes rolling at me for saying this…fuck it, I’m well soused atm). Why single out GW on this one?? I think it was a good PR move on his part, and it will certainly play well to the masses…hell, I myself think it was pretty smart and I can see the motivation. Its politics as usual, leavened with some good sense on his part (or whoever thought this up) and, I conceed, possibly some real desire on his part to go there as a gesture to the troops, the Iraqi’s and the American people. Whats wrong with that? Its what ANY American President would do, reguardless of party…on THIS score, they all think pretty much alike…and so do their advisors. We EXPECT this kind of thing from all of them. Sorry…I return you all to your regularly scheduled Bush bash fest. 🙂 Cheers people!! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/25 "2003-11-27T20:23:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > **But, to be fair, they all do it (I can practically HEAR the eyes rolling at me for saying this…fuck it, I’m well soused atm).** No eyes rolling here… you’re right, they all do it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > **Why single out GW on this one??** Um… because he did it this time? I’ve complained about others when they do similar things. Unlike some, I’m pretty equal-opporunity. When I see bullshit, I call it, doesn’t matter who’s spewing it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > **Its politics as usual…** Which is exactly what I hate about it… I hate “politics as usual,” and I hate that people are perfectly happy with the painfully-obvious manipulation that goes on these days. “Wagging the dog” isn’t half of it anymore, when every public event is tailor-made to “play” a certain way to we, the people. You’re right that I would most likely expect the same from any candidate. However, I would love to see a President who had enough class to rise above the storm of bilious crap that is “politics as usual” and actually do something classy. Too much to expect, I know. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/26 "2003-11-27T20:36:52Z")
Ya, I don’t like it too much either Avalonian, but unfortunately it is the way it is, and is unlikely to change in the forseeable future IMO. I, also, would love to see a President that DIDN’T do such things, the didn’t cater to special interests, that had the best for the country in mind, not the best for himself or the party. I used to fantasize that if an Independant could become president that perhaps without the pressures of the two opposing parties things might be a bit different…but t’was only a pipe dream I fear. Ah well… From Avalonian > [@](#): > > Um… because he did it this time? I’ve complained about others when they do similar things. Unlike some, I’m pretty equal-opporunity. When I see bullshit, I call it, doesn’t matter who’s spewing it. Oh, I’m with you all the way. I’m an equal oppurtunity basher myself. Thats why I wanted to bring up the point that, ya, Bush was prancing for the cameras…and he’s, unfortunately, doing nothing unusual by doing so, as all of us can visualize any other modern president doing exactly the same thing, reguardless of party. Also unfortunately, most of us just go “politics as usual”… -XT ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/27 "2003-11-27T20:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\*You’re right that I would most likely expect the same from any candidate. However, I would love to see a President who had enough class to rise above the storm of bilious crap that is “politics as usual” and actually do something classy. > \*\* To my mind, he may have done something classy - that will be determined by what comes next. I see nothing wrong with visiting the troops or in choosing to do so on Thaksgiving - a day when they are most likely to be homesick. If Bush now makes no further mention of it, then he has been classy. If he and his handlers make hay, and try capitalize with ongoing PR, then he will have turned it into low-grade, crass electioneering. Let’s see what happens. I do not believe that the Commander in Chief has to refuse to visit his troops in a combat zone in order to show class. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/28 "2003-11-27T20:48:57Z")
Very much a bold PR move, but I don’t hold that against Bush. Like DCU, I’m impressed as hell that they were able to pull it off in secret. ---
**Author:** ![ammo52](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ammo52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ammo52)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/29 "2003-11-27T20:59:55Z")
The gesture wasn’t meant to impress any of the knee-jerking, hair-shirt wearin’ screechers on this board. You better believe, though, that he connected with the audience that matters-- the men and women in uniform in Iraq. It was a classy move, period-- and I bet he’d have done it even if it could have been done without us _ever_ hearing about it. ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/30 "2003-11-27T21:24:39Z")
Not that I’d ever _dream_ of interrupting a good ole’ fashioned SDMB Bush-bashing circle jerk, but may I gently ask: What’s the debate here? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/31 "2003-11-27T21:25:36Z")
Yes, he had to do it to retain any credibility, especially knowing that antiwar Sens. Clinton and Reed were going there - imagine how _that_ would have played. But the media emphasis should be, and I expect to a large part will be, on his having to sneak in and out to avoid being shot at, half a year after the “Mission Accomplished” banner photo op. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/32 "2003-11-27T21:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ammo52 \* > \*\*It was a classy move, period-- and I bet he’d have done it even if it could have been done without us _ever_ hearing about it. \*\* Had he done that (greeted the troops _sans_ media coverage, that is), my opinion of the event would be far higher. _That_ would have been classy. The fact that it was treated as a media event dampens my opinion of it. Granted, I share the opinion that it would be hard to pull such a thing off. But it would also increase the value of it inestimably. Greeting the troops individually and quietly is more genuine, to me, than making a surprise speech with cameras rolling. And as far as “screechers” go, I’m not the one slinging _ad hominem_ attacks in GD. Yeah, you’re obviously a great judge of what’s classy. **amarone** , fair enough… we can play “wait and see” if you like. However, pro-Bush pundits are already spinning this as a “defining moment” (heard on the radio earlier today, so sorry, no cite) for the President. :rolleyes: I can’t imagine it will be forgotten in the coming election year. By the way, **Elvis** … I don’t know about Reed, but Clinton is in Afghanistan (not Iraq) today, and she’s making her fair share of hay with the appearance. Equally questionable, in my opinion, though at least she’s being more honest about it. Not that that makes it much better. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/33 "2003-11-27T21:52:26Z")
Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI), a former captain in the 82nd Airborne, is in Afghanistan with Sen. Clinton. [NYT article](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/politics/politics-afghan-usa-clinton.html). I was a little loose with the word “there”, I admit - it’s the concept of actually visiting the troops in the war zone, in actual danger, that counts. Bush’s trip does seem to have trumped Clinton’s in the media, though, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/34 "2003-11-27T22:03:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > **Hell, I’m just impressed that they pulled it off. They pretty much caught every single news organization off-guard – not an easy task with the most-watched man on the planet, especially given the logistics of planning the trip.** Yeah, it’s interesting security went so well on this … funny they couldn’t control the leaks on things like Valerie Plame yet this event was airtight. If their information control is that good, kinda makes you think the earlier leaks might have been … intentional … ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/35 "2003-11-27T22:13:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GoHeels \* > Not that I’d ever _dream_ of interrupting a good ole’ fashioned SDMB Bush-bashing circle jerk, but may I gently ask: > What’s the debate here? Wish I knew – while I wouldn’t pass on any opportunity to ding on the dimbulb, I don’t see anything here other than typical political photo-op pandering. I mean, it’s not like he actually gave a speech and made another “Bring 'em on”-type gaffe. I can only imagine Thanksgiving is a slow news day. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/36 "2003-11-27T22:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\*In a word: yes. I’m no fan of Bush, but I give him a break quite often… perhaps more often than I should, even. > > _This_, however… this simply reeks of “PR event.” The timing is questionable, and the way it plays is predictably spin-worthy. > > It feels less than genuine. Much less. \*\* How could he possibly have done it **without** the media being involved? Are you asking him to censor the media? I honestly don’t get it. The timing was **for the troops**. Why is that so hard to understand? Frankly, this is probably the worst time he could pick if he wanted to make this a media event for the folks back home. Almost any other day would’ve gotten **more** coverage. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/37 "2003-11-27T22:44:38Z")
Gotta disagree with that - what other normal (domestic) newsmakers are doing anything today except eating and watching football? This was a good day to pick so as not to have any competition on the news. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/38 "2003-11-27T22:49:45Z")
Seems like a nitpick to me, ElvisL1ves, but frankly I wouldn’t know I real point if it bit me on the ass right now I’m so wasted. I would say that, at least as far as my bufuddled brain goes, this was a good time (politically) to haga lo que el hizo. La paz todos -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/39 "2003-11-27T22:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Gotta disagree with that - what other normal (domestic) newsmakers are doing anything today except eating and watching football? This was a good day to pick so as not to have any competition on the news. \*\* Maybe we can dig up some stats on news viewership on a typical Thanksgiving, but I suspect it’s a low ratings day. I’m a news junkie, and won’t be watching any news shows today. Like most people I’m heading out for some turkey right now, and will spend the rest of the day socializing. Had I not logged on the SDMB, I wouldn’t have know about this until tomorrow-- at which point it’s the proverbial “yesterday’s news”. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/40 "2003-11-27T22:55:48Z")
What a shallow, transparent, meaningless, cynical, calculated, self-serving, thoroughly political and insincere thing to. This guy makes me sick. Too bad he couldn’t show up during Nam. Has he apologized to the troops for lying to them and for sending them to get killed in the desert for no reason? What an unbelievable scumbag this guy is. Let’s not forget he is a wartime deserter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594.md?page=3)