# All hail the conquering hero: Bush in Baghdad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594 "2003-11-27T17:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/81 "2003-11-28T00:40:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*He wasn’t visiting Iraqis, he was visiting Americans. \*\* I really really think you’re missing the point here. Hint: he was _in Iraq_. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/82 "2003-11-28T00:41:56Z")
[Reuters link](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N27146685.htm) > [@](#): > > Analysts said Bush’s trip to Iraq should not be considered in the same vein as his aircraft carrier stunt. > > “There was a serious element of risk so it’s more difficult to trivialize or dismiss as mere showmanship,” Buchanan said. “If they can take down a helicopter with a shoulder-fired missile, they could take down Air Force One.” > > Shirley Anne Warshaw, a professor of political science at Gettysburg College in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, said she believed the president’s visit to Iraq reflected a new approach by the Bush White House. > > “I think it shows that he is willing to stand up and be counted for something that he believes in. He has become personally involved now in this loss of life,” Warshaw said. . ``` See the dramatic Bullshit ? oh... Bush took a mighty risk ! What a hero... ``` Some more ? [U.S. troops across Iraq cheer surprise Bush visit](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAK767865.htm) > [@](#): > > “I think that shows real personal courage,” said his companion Sergeant Gilbert Nail of Oklahoma, both of whom had just returned from a patrol through Saddam Hussein’s hometown. > [@](#): > > “I didn’t get to see him but what matters is that he cares enough to come and visit.” ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/83 "2003-11-28T00:43:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **I really really think you’re missing the point here.** So what is your point, I mean, besides stating the obvious? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/84 "2003-11-28T00:45:16Z")
> [@](#): > > The soldiers, we were told about 60. [http://www.drudgereport.com/flashbb.htm](http://www.drudgereport.com/flashbb.htm) So if meeting your president face to face in Iraq defines a soldier being happy…60 of them are. Now…how about the othe 130k or so? Y’all reckon these were hand picked for their support for Bush? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/85 "2003-11-28T00:48:42Z")
From Reeder > [@](#): > > Y’all reckon these were hand picked for their support for Bush? God knows bro…relax and have a drink!! 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/86 "2003-11-28T00:49:43Z")
its the turkey talking… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/87 "2003-11-28T00:55:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*So what is your point, I mean, besides stating the obvious? \*\* My point, obviously (as I think you already know) is not how it plays to the troops he visited, but how it plays to the world. [Appositely](http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/RomanEngland.htm): > [@](#): > > Julius Caesar had of course paid earlier visits to England in 55 and 54 BC however these had only been to please his adoring public back home in Rome (political propaganda!) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/88 "2003-11-28T01:03:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **My point, obviously (as I think you already know) is not how it plays to the troops he visited, but how it plays to the world.** So freakin’ what? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/89 "2003-11-28T01:04:16Z")
jjimm, I seriously doubt GW cares how it plays to the world. The levels of his concern, at a guess and IMO, are his own re-election, general (internal politics), and, to give the guy SOME credit, because he actually believes its a good thing to do. No idea what order they are in, but I’m guessing the order I put them in is the order of importance to him…and more importantly to his advisors. There are levels and levels here, and its a complex issue. I think that anyone trying to put such an event into stark black and white is just wrong. Sure, there is crass politics involved. On the other side there is the fact that the president, right or wrong, actually buys into this stuff too, and to HIM, I’m sure its a heartfelt gesture. Anyway jjimm, go have a pint and relax. 🙂 Happy thanksgiving!! (I realize its not your holiday, but have one on me anyway…I’m raising a glass for you anyway :)). -XT ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/90 "2003-11-28T01:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*So freakin’ what? \*\* And that, I’m afraid, is obviously the attitude of the Bush administration too. Goodnight! ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/91 "2003-11-28T01:12:09Z")
Forgive me good people. I hear you say that our President has done a terrible thing by visiting our troops in Iraq. But I don’t understand - Why am I smiling? 🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/92 "2003-11-28T01:14:24Z")
Part of my problem with this whole thing was just highlighted on the evening news. This part is a criticism of the media, not of Bush. Bush supporters may stand down from DEFCON 1 for the duration of this post. Today, over 100 of our local soldiers returned home from duty in Iraq, after (I believe) about 6 months there. There was a welcoming ceremony, and a Thanksgiving dinner prepared for them. The local news outlets, if they covered the event at all (a couple did not, from what I saw), put the Bush story in front of the newscast, the returning soldiers buried deep under it and a couple others stories. To me, the returning soldiers is the more important story (by far), and should have gotten top billing. It has both local and national significance, and was also a feel-good Thanksgiving story. Shame on the media for putting Bush’s PR stunt in front of the real stories of our soldiers. As I said earlier, there’s a reason I got myself out of mass media news production years ago… poor priorities is part of it. On preview: **Michael Ellis** , “So freakin’ what?” is part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/93 "2003-11-28T01:15:49Z")
And with that… good night everyone. For fellow Americans, have a happy Thanksgiving! ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/94 "2003-11-28T01:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*And that, I’m afraid, is obviously the attitude of the Bush administration too. > > Goodnight! \*\* Again, why should the President be hostage to what you think? This is a turkey dinner, not invading the Bosphorus. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/95 "2003-11-28T01:23:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > \*\*Forgive me good people. I hear you say that our President has done a terrible thing by visiting our troops in Iraq. But I don’t understand - Why am I smiling? 🙂 🙂 🙂 \*\* Pssst…\*\*Milum[/m]…he’s done a horrible thing by lying his way into an illegal war and murdering thousands of innocent people, including American soldiers. Now he has the sack to show up for a photo op with his victims. As for the cheering GI’s in the cafeteria…it’s not like they have a choice is it? They get court martialled if they try to tell the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/96 "2003-11-28T01:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*Again, why should the President be hostage to what you think? > > This is a turkey dinner, not invading the Bosphorus. \*\* Since Bush has been begging the rest of the world to come and bail his ass out of the mess he created I think it should matter what kind of image he presesnts to him…not that the world owes him anything. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/97 "2003-11-28T01:42:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*its the turkey talking… \*\* and nobody took me up on my straight line… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/98 "2003-11-28T01:45:26Z")
I’ll take you up on it…I’m too drunk to know what you are saying though, vanilla! Cheers! Diogenes the Cynic, I must be living in another reality than you are…I missed the whole ‘begging the world’ thing. Why don’t you fill us all in with some good examples of Bush begging. It will go well as an after dinner treat. -XT ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/99 "2003-11-28T01:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > \*\*I’ll take you up on it…I’m too drunk to know what you are saying though, vanilla! Cheers! > -XT \*\* Thank you, Mr. President! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594/100 "2003-11-28T01:54:45Z")
Bush went to Iraq for political purposes. A photo-op. A morale-building exercise, as well. Some troops will buy it, some won’t. It seems the debate here is being characterized in terms of right or wrong. It shouldn’t be. The end result of the trip might have achieved some good effects, but that achievement is not indicative of the motivations behind the trip. IMHO, it was most likely a PR stunt. So, this gesture is ill-suited to judge Bush’s character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-hail-the-conquering-hero-bush-in-baghdad/215594.md?page=6)