# All In The Family: Who was the better actor, O'Connor or Stapleton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471 "2015-12-05T01:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/1 "2015-12-05T01:04:32Z")
Although the character of Archie was more iconic, I feel that Jean Stapleton’s portrayal of Edith was the more difficult role. IMHO, it didn’t seem that O’Connor had to stretch as much to become a racist as Stapleton did to become a dingbat. (I wish that there were a way to make (or view) a poll from Tapatalk.) ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/2 "2015-12-05T01:13:30Z")
From what I’ve read, O’Connor was NOTHING like Archie. He was a liberal guy IRL, not the right-wing, Nixon loving dock worker he portrayed. Stapleton played a kind-hearted but dim-witted housewife… Not exactly groundbreaking.That’s not meant to criticize her work. She was excellent in her role. But O’Connor carried that show and handled tough subject matter that would never see primetime today. He also made Archie a sypathetic character at times, and given what his character was, that was amazing. He’s one of the top 5 TV stars of all time, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/3 "2015-12-05T01:14:06Z")
I have to say Carol O’Connor did a masterful job of portraying a racist but also keeping the character likable. People saw the character as backward and maybe even dumb. People didn’t see the character as hateful or nasty. I’m still not sure how O’Connor achieved that balance. It was a great performance. Then in the Heat of the Night he reversed his role. Out worldly he was a Redneck sheriff, in a racist town. But actually had much different private views. He regretted the things he was required to do early in his law enforcement career. His true feelings came out in later seasons, especially when the character dated a black lady. Got fired as police chief and then ran for sheriff. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/4 "2015-12-05T01:20:06Z")
I dont think they can be seperated. They were great because of the chemistry and professionalism between the two. O’Connor was a weird actor; he was great as an organized crime guy in Point Blank; he was ridiculous as the general in Kellys Heroes even though I love the film. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/5 "2015-12-05T01:26:29Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > . . . I feel that Jean Stapleton’s portrayal of Edith was the more difficult role. . . . Naw… Gotta disagree. She was a second-fiddle, and most of her lines were reactions. She didn’t get a lot of big lines, or big speeches. (A few, and they were brilliant. But…only a few.) She did have brilliant timing, and that was necessary, as she got a great many of the punch-lines. But O’Connor had to do the set-up, and, while that isn’t as boffo, it’s harder work. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/6 "2015-12-05T01:32:37Z")
Stapleton did her job well but the role of Edith was largely one dimensional. Both were good actors, O’Connor had many more opportunities to shine. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/7 "2015-12-05T01:32:49Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > From what I’ve read, O’Connor was NOTHING like Archie. He was a liberal guy IRL, not the right-wing, Nixon loving dock worker he portrayed. > > Stapleton played a kind-hearted but dim-witted housewife… Not exactly groundbreaking.That’s not meant to criticize her work. She was excellent in her role. > > But O’Connor carried that show and handled tough subject matter that would never see primetime today. He also made Archie a sypathetic character at times, and given what his character was, that was amazing. > > He’s one of the top 5 TV stars of all time, IMO. I definitely agree that neither actor IRL was anything like their character but when I saw them interviewed, I wasn’t surprised by O’Connor’s personality. Stapleton actually had me believing that she was an “Edith”. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/8 "2015-12-05T01:36:20Z")
Jean Stapleton was wonderful, but Carrol O’Connor had the bigger role, the harder role, and the entire show on his shoulders. _All in the Family_ survived the departure of Mike and Gloria, and even (with a change of name and setting) the death of Edith. But it would not have survived the loss of Archie. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/9 "2015-12-05T02:13:44Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I dont think they can be seperated. They were great because of the chemistry and professionalism between the two. O’Connor was a weird actor; he was great as an organized crime guy in Point Blank; he was ridiculous as the general in Kellys Heroes even though I love the film. De Gaulle? He ain’t even in this war! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/10 "2015-12-05T03:16:26Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I definitely agree that neither actor IRL was anything like their character but when I saw them interviewed, I wasn’t surprised by O’Connor’s personality. Stapleton actually had me believing that she was an “Edith”. But she’d done the role a number of times before. Check out the movie “Damn Yankees” where she plays a mean spirited Edith. Or “Bells Are Ringing” where she plays a less dingy Edith. Jean Stapleton was an absolutely wonderful character actress, but I’ve never seen her stretch herself beyond her basic “character” role. But what madsiriscool said above is a great point. So…I dunno. Can we all agree that Sally Struthers was the worst actress on the show and that Mike was the most loathesome character? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/11 "2015-12-05T04:45:27Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > he was ridiculous as the general in Kellys Heroes even though I love the film. Of course, he was \*supposed \*to be ridiculous - it was the point of the character. Kind of reminds of me Gleason as the sheriff in _Smokey and the Bandit_. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/12 "2015-12-05T04:51:50Z")
Woof, woof, woof…that’s my other dog impression. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/13 "2015-12-05T05:51:43Z")
I’m voting for O’Connor. He had the more difficult role. Archie was less likable, more complicated, and more realistic than Edith. And it was the central role of the show; if O’Connor had failed in portraying Archie, the show would have failed with him. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/14 "2015-12-05T08:50:45Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Of course, he was \*supposed \*to be ridiculous - it was the point of the character. Kind of reminds of me Gleason as the sheriff in _Smokey and the Bandit_. I dont agree. The other characters were reasonable facsimiles of real people (even hippie Donald Sutherland). But O’Connor was so over the top. Not at all believable as a general at a time when the allies werent sure victory was certain. He could have been only following orders though…directors orders. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/15 "2015-12-05T15:36:49Z")
There is a story that Carroll O’Connor was considered for the role of The Skipper on “Gilligan’s Island” which went to Alan Hale Jr. I’m not well enough versed in GI history to know how true that is…The Skipper had to be seen as tough but not mean yelling at Gilligan so maybe they felt O’Connor didn’t have that quality. Hale’s father was a well-known humorous character actor in movies and the two looked very similar so that could be it. I’m sure that O’connor ultimately was as relieved he didn’t get the role as Gene Hackman was not getting “The Brady Bunch”. ``` O'Connor had a couple odd roles on the Irwin Allen shows. A shipwrecked sailor who plays a piccolo (?) Santa Claus like figure who teaches a bratty prince how to treat people on "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea". Even stranger on the "Time Tunnel" as a dual role as a modern British general who goes back to 1815 to talk to his ancestor. How far down on the casting list of middle-age British men do you go before you get to Carroll O'Connor? Used to run into a guy who looked like Mike Stivic at the Electric Banana in Greenwich. Don't know what happened to him and I can't look in the club since it's gone ``` ---
**Author:** ![BigBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@BigBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/16 "2015-12-05T16:21:55Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > But she’d done the role a number of times before. Check out the movie “Damn Yankees” where she plays a mean spirited Edith. Or “Bells Are Ringing” where she plays a less dingy Edith. > > Jean Stapleton was an absolutely wonderful character actress, but I’ve never seen her stretch herself beyond her basic “character” role. Or Aunt Dingbat in _You’ve Got Mail_. Her son played a dingbat on _One Day at a Time_. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/17 "2015-12-05T22:01:54Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > De Gaulle? He ain’t even in this war! Do you mean _CLAIRMONT?_ ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/18 "2015-12-05T23:24:57Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Do you mean _CLAIRMONT?_ You get my box of medals. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/19 "2015-12-06T01:46:23Z")
I was surprised to learn that O’Connor was from a very well off and distinguished family. Until well into the series run he was the least successful member in terms of financial worth and regard of peers. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471/20 "2015-12-06T02:05:01Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Of course, he was \*supposed \*to be ridiculous - it was the point of the character. Kind of reminds of me Gleason as the sheriff in _Smokey and the Bandit_. Jackie Gleason was originally offered the role of Archie by creator Norman Lear, but he turned it down. He didn’t want to return to television. I know this isn’t GD but I’d just like to say that Archie Bunker was **not** a racist, he was a bigot. He was all bark and no bite. He had a simplistic, insulated viewpoint that drove the things he said, but he never really acted on those views much. The word ‘racist’ today has severe implications that the Archie character did not at all live up to. Even if Gloria had dated a black guy there would have been some serious shouting, [but he would not have done this…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbk0S48YZMc) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-in-the-family-who-was-the-better-actor-oconnor-or-stapleton/739471.md?page=2)