# All-Male Fox Panel Freaks Out About Female Breadwinners **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744 "2013-05-30T20:34:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/1 "2013-05-30T20:34:11Z")
Here is a story from HuffPo titled “All-Male Fox Panel Freaks Out About Female Breadwinners”, about a recent Pew study that showed that the female was the primary income earner in 4 out of 10 households with children. Video link here: [All-Male Fox Panel Freaks Out About Female Breadwinners (VIDEO) | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/fox-female-breadwinners_n_3358926.html) Juan Williams said “something going terribly wrong in American society, and it’s hurting our children, and it’s going to have impact for generations to come.” Erick Erickson said "“When you look at biology, look at the natural world, the roles of a male and a female in society, and other animals, the male typically is the dominant role. The female, it’s not antithesis, or it’s not competing, it’s a complementary role. We as people in a smart society have lost the ability to have complementary relationships in nuclear families, and it’s tearing us apart.” Lou Dobbs said this was evidence that " “society dissolv[ing] around us.” I disagree with all these guys (and where are the women?). But that may be because I am one of those households. Having my husband be the SAH parent has been awesome for us, though. I love my job and make much more money that he does. He hated his job and it didn’t pay very well. He likes being a SAH dad. I like working. Our kids are doing very well. We are happy. We made some sacrifices, though. We did not take “Disney vacations” (they aren’t our cup of tea, anyway, so no loss there), and both less house and car that some think we should have. Our retirements saving is on track, the kids college funds are are track. What’s not to love? DH says occasionally, he misses being in the traditional role, but that it is rare and fleeting. He does some odd jobs for pocket money, but I bring home the bacon and he manages it. And he takes a portion that is his to do with as he pleases, no questions asked. Are we causing societal downfall? Has this hurt ‘the children’? Where do these guys get the idea that this is a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/2 "2013-05-30T20:50:40Z")
Well it’s a panel of late middle aged men talking to an audience of elderly men. Neither of those two groups tend to be very open to change. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/3 "2013-05-30T20:58:07Z")
Don’t let Fox News find out about [this.](http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/01/staggering-college-degree-gap-favoring-women-who-have-earned-9-million-more-college-degrees-than-men-since-1982/) On the plus side for men, we are very well represented in Congressional panels discussing female reproductive rights. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/4 "2013-05-30T21:15:36Z")
Note that [the study in question](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/29/breadwinner-moms/) combines two distinct family types to get that 40% figure: > [@](#): > > These “breadwinner moms” are made up of two very different groups: 5.1 million (37%) are married mothers who have a higher income than their husbands, and 8.6 million (63%) are single mothers. So we’re not even talking only about families with either absent dads or stay-at-home dads here: we’re talking about any family where the father doesn’t have a higher income than the mother. Fortunately, the public at large seems to have more sense on the issue than a Fox News panel, though admittedly that’s setting the bar pretty low: > [@](#): > > Most people reject the idea that it is bad for a marriage if a wife out-earns her husband. When asked if they agree or disagree that it is generally better for a marriage if a husband earns more than his wife, some 28% of survey respondents say they agree and 63% disagree. When a similar question was asked in 1997, 40% said they agreed. In the new survey, adults with a high school diploma or less were twice as likely as those with a college degree (35% vs. 18%) to say it is generally better for a marriage if a husband out-earns a wife. There were no significant differences between men and women on this question. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/5 "2013-05-30T21:28:47Z")
Ah. The old appeal to nature. Christian morality dictates that humans rise above nature. We shouldn’t look to nature for guidance on what’s right and wrong. And we shouldn’t trust our instincts either. Both of these are inherently sinful (supposedly). But even if this weren’t true, nature provides a mixed message about gender roles. There are numerous examples of females dominating males. There are even more instances of NO genders at all. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/6 "2013-05-30T21:48:07Z")
They’re just reporting the biological truth that somebody’s got to stay home and somebody’s got to go out and hunt the giraffes. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/7 "2013-05-30T21:51:55Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > DH says occasionally, he misses being in the traditional role… You call your husband a designated hitter? Is that like a sexual nickname? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/8 "2013-05-30T21:52:36Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Erick Erickson said ""When you look at biology, look at the natural world, the roles of a male and a female in society, and other animals, the male typically is the dominant role. The female, it’s not antithesis, or it’s not competing, it’s a complementary role. I hope he says this to a lioness. She’ll rip his throat out. Anyhow, if an all male panel is good enough for Republicans to testify about reproductive choice it is good enough for Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/9 "2013-05-30T22:00:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I hope he says this to a lioness. She’ll rip his throat out. > Anyhow, if an all male panel is good enough for Republicans to testify about reproductive choice it is good enough for Fox. Or a female white shark. They’re much larger than the males. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/10 "2013-05-30T22:03:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They’re just reporting the biological truth that somebody’s got to stay home and somebody’s got to go out and hunt the giraffes. Which is usually the FEMALE lion 😛 I am currently the breadwinner for our little nuclear family. I am putting my husband through Pharmacy school, then hopefully we can again reverse the breadwinner role. I don’t care who is earning the bread, as long as it gets brought home! ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/11 "2013-05-30T22:08:26Z")
> **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. Females Are Dominant Sex, Primate Study Suggests Fox can suck it ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/12 "2013-05-30T22:13:12Z")
These guys are conflating two issues: “women who are primary breadwinners” and “single women with children, especially those who never married the father”. I don’t know if the clip was edited, but Juan Williams is clearly talking about the latter. The guy talking about biology was just nuts. Firstly, he was probably thinking “mammals”, not “animals”, but even then he’s wrong. Sure, in social mammalian species the male is usually larger and dominant, but that doesn’t mean that large male is somehow a “breadwinner”. In some groups, everyone feeds as individuals. In other groups they hunt together or sometimes (as with lions), the females are the breadwinners and the male functions more as protector-in-chief. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/13 "2013-05-30T22:14:56Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Which is usually the FEMALE lion 😛 Meanwhile, the male lion, far from being the lazy king of the beasts, is in fact a primary cub-care provider and keeps the home territory safe while Mama is away. I guess the FOX news guys are more like rats than lions. Unsurprising, really. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/14 "2013-05-30T22:19:39Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Which is usually the FEMALE lion 😛 > > I am currently the breadwinner for our little nuclear family. I am putting my husband through Pharmacy school, then hopefully we can again reverse the breadwinner role. I don’t care who is earning the bread, as long as it gets brought home! Who needs bread?! You’ll have access to pharmaceuticals! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/15 "2013-05-30T22:20:59Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Meanwhile, the male lion, far from being the lazy king of the beasts, is in fact a primary cub-care provider and keeps the home territory safe while Mama is away. > > I guess the FOX news guys are more like rats than lions. Unsurprising, really. :rolleyes: Hey, rats are really nice to each other, and have been shown in studies to care enough about each other to forgo treats in order to help a cagemate. I’ve personally witnessed my pet rats taking care of their injured friend, and bringing food and grooming her to help her out. Rats are awesome. Fox News guys are more like… I dunno… bacteria or something. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/16 "2013-05-30T22:24:04Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Which is usually the FEMALE lion Who am I going to believe, you or Newt Gingrich? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/17 "2013-05-30T22:26:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I hope he says this to a lioness. She’ll rip his throat out. One of my favorite responses to this “Nature!” nonsense on another forum was “But I don’t want my girlfriend to act according to nature! She’ll eat my head!” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/18 "2013-05-30T22:29:58Z")
We had hamsters when I was a kid. Once, the female hamster went berserk and killed her babies. I guess they kept getting on her nerves. I am SO glad my mother is not a hamster. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/19 "2013-05-30T22:29:59Z")
Long ago I read a pop science magazine blurb claiming that animal pairs were more likely to be monogamous if the female was the same size or larger than the male. So obviously those guys have it backwards. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744/20 "2013-05-30T22:39:31Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Long ago I read a pop science magazine blurb claiming that animal pairs were more likely to be monogamous if the female was the same size or larger than the male. Yeah, you’d be monogamous too, if your wife were bigger than you. It’s the only safe option. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-male-fox-panel-freaks-out-about-female-breadwinners/659744.md?page=2)