# all my friends like empire strikes back the best but I like return of the jedi **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257 "2010-05-04T04:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/1 "2010-05-04T04:26:06Z")
spoilers for if you live under a rock my favorite part is when anakin redeems himself and kills the emperor this makes up in my opinion for the ewoks, which seem to be the biggest complaint i hear why does everyone hate ewoks ESB is good but you need RotJ to finish the story also i am too young to have seen esb in the when it first came out, so by the time i saw it i already knew that darth vader is luke skywalkers dad maybe missing that big shock and turn makes me not like the movie so much as everyone else ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/2 "2010-05-04T04:45:17Z")
I agree with Dante on why Empire is a better movie: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lzEhoXads](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lzEhoXads) ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/3 "2010-05-04T04:53:39Z")
I preferred _Empire,_ but \*Jedi \* had two things going for it: more evil Emperor, and the man eating Sarlacc-gina. You’d figure Lucas could’ve paid for some quality therapy with the cash from the first two movies, but nooooooooooooo ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/4 "2010-05-04T04:57:16Z")
The reasons are many (besides purely personal preference) about why TESB is better than RotJ. While the big revelation is something you’ll never experience unless you went to the original showing, in terms of storytelling, wit, and writing, ESB is better in every way. The one thing that stands out in my mind is the ultra downer ending. At the time, I was pretty pissed that it ended like that, but looking back, I can’t even begin to imagine the guts it took to end a movie like that in Hollywood. While downer endings weren’t uncommon (Easy Rider, Love Story, etc.) in horror/sci-fi/fantasy, they were nearly unheard of. The one thing that stands out in my mind about RotJ is that they basically rehashed the plot of Star Wars ep 4: Obi vs Darth -\> Luke vs Darth Destroying the Death Star -\> Destroying the New Death star Celebration afterwards -\> Celebration afterwards Imho, RotJ was the remake of ST:ep 4. And then, another thing that makes ESB better is Yoda. To this day, nearly everything that Yoda has said (in that film, not in later films) still holds true. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/5 "2010-05-04T05:03:45Z")
No one under 40 really hates the ewoks, because we were kids when they were introduced, and they ruled (and thus, axiomatically, still rule.) It’s just popular to hate them, like it’s popular to hate the best Indy movie, Temple of Doom. The best Star Wars movies are ep4, ep6, ep5, ep3, ep2, ep1 (or, in order of release: 1, 3, 2, 6, 5, 4.) ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/6 "2010-05-04T05:05:31Z")
I don’t hate Temple of Doom but it is my least favorite of the 3, and that girl is annoying and also that little kid ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/7 "2010-05-04T05:14:53Z")
Short-Round is THE MAN. COVA YA HEART, INDY! INDY! COVA YA HEART! ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/8 "2010-05-04T05:39:18Z")
In short: You’re wrong. In length: > [@Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back](#): > > Size matters not. Look at me; judge me by my size do you, hm? And well you should not, for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us… and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must FEEL the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Even between the land… and the ship. > [@Luke in The Empire Strikes Back](#): > > I can’t believe it! > [@Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back](#): > > That… is why you fail. I have Episode V on my computer and I still regularly open it up just to skip to that part and watch it. Empire Strikes Back mesmerizes me. I believe that if Irvin Kershner had directed all three films- or at least Episodes V and VI, the original trilogy would be the greatest film series in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/9 "2010-05-04T06:53:22Z")
What, better than Godfather 1-3? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/10 "2010-05-04T06:58:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What, better than Godfather 1-3? If Irvine had directed them, yes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/11 "2010-05-04T07:00:37Z")
I’ve gotta go with Empire. It shows Luke’s character change and why he changed the way he did. RotJ was him sticking with those changes despite being offered more power. He wasn’t going to sell out his friends for power. Plus it’s got Yoda and all his great misty swamp lines. Nothing like whipping out a Yoda impression at the conference table. It gets ya respect. Unlike my Rodney impression. Empire also had the first Emperor. Lucas separated the body and voice actors like he did for Vader. Clive Revill was the voice, an unknown woman was the face and supposedly the eyes are from a monkey. It is chilling. Not to dis Ian MacDiarmand for his Palpatine. He camps up RotJ and I to III very nicely. RotJ was fun, but we knew it would have a happy ending. There were no great surprises like Vader was Luke’s father. Hell, I was surprised. My dad was not, he said it was obvious. A few months before RotJ one of my acquaintances insisted Leia was Luke’s sister, so the only surprise was that this guy was right. The final Vader/Palpatine samckdown in RotJ was too quick. And compared to the bad ass fights in the prequels, Vader was not that powerful. Dooku could have easily handled Vader, and frankly, so could younger Obi-Wan. Annakin really develops into a fearsome warrior in the Clone Wars cartoons. The prequels didn’t show this. The original trilogy showed that Vader would do anything required and kill and torture anyone in his way: his character was fearsome. But he had trouble dispatching Obi-Wan, who could barely move (sorry Sir Alec). But he was still fearsome because of what he would do to you if he captured you alive. I’d like to see Lucas let Spielberg remake IV to VI. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/12 "2010-05-04T07:04:04Z")
Return of the Jedi’s best part is the beginning 15ish minutes. Especially when Lukes lets himself into Jabba’s palace, force chokes two pig-guards and convinces Jabba’s right hand man to let Luke see Jabba. All while in a bad ass face covering hooded robe of some sort. Then he talks to Jabba all calm-like, knowing he mostly has things under control. Luke is at his most bad ass right then and there. Other than that, A New Hope is the best of the three. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/13 "2010-05-04T07:06:46Z")
Question about Return of the Jedi: Why the fuck does R2D2 have Luke’s lightsaber? Luke didn’t use it in the palace scene (instead he tried to use the force to grab a nearby enemy’s weapon), meaning he had given it to R2D2 before sending the droid to serve under Jabba. It makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/14 "2010-05-04T07:16:34Z")
He knew that he was unlikely to make it into the room armed. Striking at the moment that he was free was what they expected. Striking at another moment when they thought he was completely under control but wasn’t was the idea. But how it actually played out made no sense. They were actually more prepared for him at the Sarlacc pit. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/15 "2010-05-04T07:19:04Z")
When I was 6 or 7, _Return of the Jedi_ was my favorite. The heroes won! Everything’s resolved! Jabba! Ewoks! The best lightsaber fights! TESB was cool, but RotJ claimed that moment of joy in my heart. Now that I’m in my 30’s, I recognize that Empire is the better movie but I still _like_ RotJ better. I watch those movies mostly for nostalgia reasons and RotJ can still find that boy inside of me. TESB is better but I like RotJ more. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/16 "2010-05-04T07:31:56Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > He knew that he was unlikely to make it into the room armed. Why not? He easily made it into the room. He could have easily done it armed. [QUOTE=Stone] Striking at the moment that he was free was what they expected. Striking at another moment when they thought he was completely under control but wasn’t was the idea. [/QUOTE] So he says to himself, “Well, I’m not likely to get into the room armed (false) so I’ll give my Jedi weapon to R2D2 in the hope that when they capture me unarmed they’ll put me in a situation where I can retrieve my weapon from it.” This is like the worst plan ever. The fact that it worked is completely unbelievable. He should have just gone in with his saber and been captured anyway. I’m sure the writers could have come up with some other way for him to escape. Maybe R2D2 retrieves the lightsaber from the room where they keep all their loot and the same scene occurs, whatever. > [@Stone](#): > > But how it actually played out made no sense. You’re right about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/17 "2010-05-04T08:37:04Z")
He used the force to vaguely see into the future that he’d be captured. Duh! But yeah, it was a bit daft. Taken from [this site](http://flushrush.com/reasons-luke-skywalker-complete-idiot/comment-page-1/): > [@](#): > > Let us imagine that Luke Skywalker is trying to tell you his plan to rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt. > Luke: “Okay so, first we get Lando Calrissian posing as a guard inside Jabba’s Palace.” > You: “How do we do that?” > Luke: “We just get him a costume and he—just walks in.” > You: “Um, okay, say it’s that easy. So then Lando gets Han out of the carbonite and we pick them up and get away?” > Luke: “No. What happens next is that I put my lightsaber in a hidden compartment in R2-D2 and send R2-D2 and C3PO to Jabba the Hutt as gifts.” > You: “Wait, why-“ > Luke: “Just listen. Next we have Leia pose as a bounty hunter arriving at Jabba’s palace with Chewbacca captured. She’s going to hand over Chewbacca to Jabba.” > You: “Wait, why? Wouldn’t that mean we would now have to rescue Han Solo, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and C3PO? That just makes it more difficult, right?” > Luke: “Just go with me here. Next, Leia is going to sneak around at night and get Han Solo out of the carbonite, but get captured.” > You: “What? Why would we get everyone captured like that?” > Luke: “Now I’ll show up, use my Force powers to get in to Jabba’s fortress, get past the guards to an audience before Jabba and then use my Jedi mind trick to get Jabba to release everyone. If that doesn’t work, then I’ll get captured.” > You: “Okay, if you can just use your Force powers to get in to the palace and all the way to Jabba, then let’s just have you go in right now and get Han out.” > Luke: “No, that’s stupid. I’m going to get myself captured. Because then you see, we’ll be taken to the sarlacc pit and then, when we’re on the skiff, I’ll get sent out first and then R2-D2 will manage to get to the top of Jabba’s sail barge and shoot out my lightsaber, and then with Lando’s help, we’ll just—rescue everyone and then everything will be fine!” > You: “That is the stupidest plan I’ve ever heard of.” > Luke:“I’ve thought of everything.” > You: “Clearly you didn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/18 "2010-05-04T08:50:53Z")
Since I’m a sentimental sap, I enjoyed RotJ more, but TESB is clearly a better movie. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/19 "2010-05-04T09:51:41Z")
ESB is the only one directed by someone who knew what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257/20 "2010-05-04T10:44:14Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > No one under 40 really hates the ewoks, because we were kids when they were introduced, and they ruled (and thus, axiomatically, still rule.) It’s just popular to hate them, like it’s popular to hate the best Indy movie, Temple of Doom. :eek: I’ve come to realize Temple of Doom is better than it’s reputation, but it’s still way, WAY below the awesomeness of Raiders or Last Crusade. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-my-friends-like-empire-strikes-back-the-best-but-i-like-return-of-the-jedi/538257.md?page=2)