# All new nurses by 2014 must have bachelor’s degree **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117 "2013-04-08T00:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/61 "2013-04-14T18:30:02Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > There’s degree versus license: > > CNA: certified nurse assistant > No degree required > > LPN: licensed practical nurse > Usually an associates degree required, as ASN, Associate degree in Science of Nursing > > RN: registered nurse > Depending on state, associates or bachelors > > APRN: Advanced Practice Registered Nurse > CNP: Certified Nurse Practitioner > Usually Masters degree or higher In the US there are registered nurses with 4 year degrees and LPNs with 2 year degrees. LPNs are more limited in what procedures they can do. They are also more limited as far a promotion and specialization. I have a friend who is an RN. She worked in direct hospital nursing for some years then moved into research. She now works in research in a teaching hospital and supervises her own staff. An LPN would not be able to do that kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/62 "2013-04-14T18:32:29Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > I’ve had the great luck not to need much medical care in my life, but have spent lots of time in hospitals with family and friends. ER nurses, icu nurses, neonatal, surgical nurses are almost all brilliant people. On the other hand the nurses providing most of the day to day care for patients are too often ignorant, incompetent, overworked, and underpaid. Injury and death from staff errors is way too high. If you have a loved one going into the hospital be prepared to have someone who cares about them present as close to 24/7 as possible. Hard to believe the hospital cartel will accept the expense of all those degreed caregivers. It is more likely the LPNs doing most of the day to day care and RNs who are the ER, ICU, neonatal and surgical nurses. Why would someone get a four year degree to change bed pans for the rest of their lives? ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/63 "2013-04-14T18:35:06Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Generally speaking college and university are used interchangeably is the US. Colleges tend to only have undergrad degrees (Bachelors) and university’s will have undergrad and grad (masters or doctoral level). Undergrad degrees almost always include liberal arts ourselves work (history, philosophy etc) in addition to major coursework. The definition of a college is an institution that has only 4 year programs. An university has graduate programs in addition to 4 year programs. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/64 "2013-04-14T18:38:18Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > The definition of a college is an institution that has only 4 year programs. > An university has graduate programs in addition to 4 year programs. In the US those terms are more or less interchangeble and there are universities that still call themselves colleges (Dartmouth College, College of William & Mary, etc). ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/65 "2013-04-14T19:07:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > In the US those terms are more or less interchangeble and there are universities that still call themselves colleges (Dartmouth College, College of William & Mary, etc). I live in the US. The terms are not ‘interchangeable.’ A university is an institution with graduate programs. A college is not. Dartmouth and other old and well establiished institutions probably just didn’t want to change their names because they are so old and well known, but once they included graduate programs, they became universities in fact, even if they don’t use the term university in their name. I gave the definition. There is no ‘interchangeable’ about it. For example, a school with only 4 year programs cannot call itself a university. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/66 "2013-04-14T19:24:11Z")
This hasn’t been mentioned yet so I will: If you or a loved one is ever in a nursing home (in the US anyway) the people tending to their day-to-day needs are CNAs. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/67 "2013-04-14T20:02:55Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > This hasn’t been mentioned yet so I will: If you or a loved one is ever in a nursing home (in the US anyway) the people tending to their day-to-day needs are CNAs. There are also LPNs. I know this because I once worked for 2 years for an agency that placed temporary RNs, LPNs, and CNAs in hospitals, nursing homes and private residences. All three went to hospitals; LPNs and CNAs went to nursing homes. I also had a roommate for a while who was an LPN and worked full time in a nursing home. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/68 "2013-04-14T20:10:36Z")
LPNs run the floor, but CNAs hand out food, makes beds, dress residents, escort them to activities, etc… (at least IME, YMWV) ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/69 "2013-04-14T20:50:34Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > LPNs run the floor, but CNAs hand out food, makes beds, dress residents, escort them to activities, etc.. (at least IME, YMWV) I have no idea what YMWV means. And I’m guessing what IME means. CNA’s do all the shit work. LPNs do have patient contact. Most of the staff in a nursing home is CNAs, true. But there are procedures that CNAs cannot do, which the LPN needs to do. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/70 "2013-04-15T03:57:34Z")
IME=In My Experience YMWV=Your Mileage Will Vary Your points: 1.That’s what I meant by “run the floor” 2.That’s pretty much “Shit work” IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Courk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Courk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Courk)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/71 "2013-04-15T03:57:50Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > In the US there are registered nurses with 4 year degrees and LPNs with 2 year degrees. As has been pointed out previously, there are also RNs with 2-year associate degrees. > [@esmeralda2](#): > > It is more likely the LPNs doing most of the day to day care and RNs who are the ER, ICU, neonatal and surgical nurses. Why would someone get a four year degree to change bed pans for the rest of their lives? Various areas will likely vary widely on this, which in itself indicates a broad statement like that is probably inaccurate. In my experience, it’s mostly RNs working throughout the hospital, and it’s increasing as LPNs are phased out. Changing bed pans is merely one aspect of the job, just as any job has unpleasantries. There are other aspects that make it worthwhile. > [@esmeralda2](#): > > I live in the US. The terms are not ‘interchangeable.’ A university is an institution with graduate programs. A college is not. Dartmouth and other old and well establiished institutions probably just didn’t want to change their names because they are so old and well known, but once they included graduate programs, they became universities in fact, even if they don’t use the term university in their name. I gave the definition. There is no ‘interchangeable’ about it. For example, a school with only 4 year programs cannot call itself a university. While, yes, there are specific definitions for each, in conversation the tendency is to use “university” and “college” interchangeably. This can get confusing when one person in a conversation thinks that the two terms represent different entities, but the other person is following technically incorrect, but often-used, conversational styling and using the terms interchangeably. The quick way to explain any resulting misunderstandings to the first person is to explain that the two terms are used interchangeably. It’s true that “college” and “university” are not interchangeable, but it is also true that they are nevertheless _used_ interchangeably. > [@esmeralda2](#): > > There are also LPNs. I know this because I once worked for 2 years for an agency that placed temporary RNs, LPNs, and CNAs in hospitals, nursing homes and private residences. All three went to hospitals; LPNs and CNAs went to nursing homes. I also had a roommate for a while who was an LPN and worked full time in a nursing home. There are some RNs in nursing homes, but they’re less likely to be in positions that need to be filled by temporary employees. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/72 "2013-04-15T08:08:30Z")
> [@Courk](#): > > While, yes, there are specific definitions for each, in conversation the tendency is to use “university” and “college” interchangeably. This can get confusing when one person in a conversation thinks that the two terms represent different entities, but the other person is following technically incorrect, but often-used, conversational styling and using the terms interchangeably. The quick way to explain any resulting misunderstandings to the first person is to explain that the two terms are used interchangeably. It’s true that “college” and “university” are not interchangeable, but it is also true that they are nevertheless _used_ interchangeably. So because a term is used incorrectly by some people, I should accept that the definitions are meaningless and go with the flow? Language then becomes meaningless. A university is an institution that provides undergraduate and graduate programs. A college is an instution that provides only undergraduate programs. There are no two ways about that. If some people use the term incorrectly, that is not a reason for anyone else to do so and thus promote ignorance, which, btw, would be quite ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/73 "2013-04-15T08:16:33Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > A university is an institution that provides undergraduate and graduate programs. A college is an instution that provides only undergraduate programs. There are no two ways about that. If some people use the term incorrectly, that is not a reason for anyone else to do so and thus promote ignorance, which, btw, would be quite ironic. [Really](http://www.stmarys-ca.edu/), [now](http://www.stmarys-ca.edu/graduate-and-professional-studies)? That’s just one institution. Let me know if you need another, please. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/74 "2013-04-15T08:25:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Really](http://www.stmarys-ca.edu/), [now](http://www.stmarys-ca.edu/graduate-and-professional-studies)? That’s just one institution. Let me know if you need another, please. I have already explained this phenomenon. Go back and read the thread. If a university wants to call itself a college, that’s their prerogative. Find a four year school with no graduate programs, which is calling itself a university, then get back to me. Such a school does not have the prerogative of calling itself a university. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/75 "2013-04-15T08:39:56Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > So because a term is used incorrectly by some people, I should accept that the definitions are meaningless and go with the flow? Language then becomes meaningless. > > A university is an institution that provides undergraduate and graduate programs. A college is an instution that provides only undergraduate programs. There are no two ways about that. If some people use the term incorrectly, that is not a reason for anyone else to do so and thus promote ignorance, which, btw, would be quite ironic. And yet, this adds nothing to what **IvoryTowerDenizen** said [post 54](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16192087&postcount=54), it’s just nitpicking at semantics. You don’t have to “accept” that people use words interchangeably, but simply recognizing that this is done is not promoting ignorance. In fact, it is how exactly language evolves. And, finally, [Boston College](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_College) would like to differ with you. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/76 "2013-04-15T08:46:57Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > Find a four year school with no graduate programs, which is calling itself a university, then get back to me. Denison University in Granville, Ohio. > [@esmeralda2](#): > > Such a school does not have the prerogative of calling itself a university. I’d like to hear more about this prerogative. What body is responsible for formally granting the word “university,” and what are the penalties for a “university” that doesn’t have any graduate programs? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/77 "2013-04-15T08:58:36Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > I have already explained this phenomenon. Actually, you didn’t. You expressed an opinion. In response to your request, [I just got back to you](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%E2%80%93Q_University) (even though that particular school is now defunct). Heck, they didn’t even offer a 4 year degree! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/78 "2013-04-15T09:04:37Z")
[Algoma University](http://www.algomau.ca/academics/#.UWvBwMoXWK8): > [@](#): > > At Algoma, there are no graduate programs, which means that undergrads have opportunities to assist with faculty research projects. [John Cabot University](http://www.johncabot.edu/about_jcu/frequently-asked-questions/#graduate): > [@](#): > > **Does John Cabot offer any graduate programs (MBA, etc.)?** > The University does not offer any graduate degree programs at this time. [Illinois Wesleyan University](http://www.iwu.edu/admissions/international/): > [@](#): > > Illinois Wesleyan is an undergraduate university that offers programs leading to the bachelor’s degree. We do not offer any graduate programs. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/79 "2013-04-17T02:34:55Z")
Requirements inflation is hitting other professions as well. Engineering is very close to requiring a masters degree to sit for the PE exam and become a Professional Engineer. This has led to a lot of angst in the Engineering community, especially Mechanical Engineers. Doing this will IMO greatly reduce the number of people who can legally call themselves “Engineers” and drive up the salaries of PEs tremendously. Or, it may lead to Engineering graduate schools becoming assembly lines to basically turn dollars into degrees. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117/80 "2013-04-22T02:17:23Z")
So you are saying in Canada or the UK you can only get Bachelor’s Degree , Master or PHD at university where in the US at college you can get Bachelor’s Degree , Master or PHD? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-new-nurses-by-2014-must-have-bachelor-s-degree/655117.md?page=5)