# "All-Out Civil War in Iraq: Could It Be a Good Thing?" (Fox News) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997 "2006-02-24T23:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/61 "2006-02-26T00:15:43Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Media matters is an openly partisan group dedicated to revealing “conservative misinformation.” And they do a hell of a good job of it, too. > [@](#): > > For the time being I’m calling bullshit on this. That graphic could have been easily made up and I wasn’t able to find anything about Bill Cowan being on “Your World” in the day in question, and I did find the two segments for the day that nothing to do with the topic. This is a huge leap. Do you know of any other single instance of Media Matters doing anything remotely dishonest or deceptive? I mean, this wouldn’t be the first time you’ve made a prediction here that turned out to be exceptionally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/62 "2006-02-26T00:50:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That’s cruel. Were I a better person, I wouldn’t be laughing. If I were a better person… hey, there’s no margin in useless speculation. On an unrelated note, where have you been, my huckleberry friend? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/63 "2006-02-26T01:50:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, FoxNews had two guys (or was it one) who said there might be upside to a civil war in Iraq. Now, is that FoxNews’ official position on the situation? I don’t see what the big deal is. Clearly it isn’t an official position; as a starting point for debate it is, however, nuts. How insane a does a debating point have to be before you recognise it as such? > [@](#): > > 60 minutes interviewed the moslem cleric who started the whole cartoon crisis. Does this mean CBS endorses the riots and killing? CBS interviewed the idiots who actually have a “debating” point that’s out there in the real world, causing trouble. It wasn’t created by CBS. This is not comparable with the subject for debate that Fox simply fabricated. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/64 "2006-02-26T02:06:40Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Clearly it isn’t an official position; as a starting point for debate it is, however, nuts. > > How insane a does a debating point have to be before you recognise it as such? All we have is a still frame picture. We have no idea what the debate was or if there even was a debate. For all we know, they might have been discussing what might happen if there was a civil war. Note that “upside” was in quotes, which tells me they were not using the term in it’s normal sense. The fact that people are jumping all over Fox for this without any real info says more about them than it does about Fox. > [@](#): > > CBS interviewed the idiots who actually have a “debating” point that’s out there in the real world, causing trouble. It wasn’t created by CBS. This is not comparable with the subject for debate that Fox simply fabricated. How do you know? You didn’t even see the debate. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/65 "2006-02-26T02:54:44Z")
It speaks ill of this board that we’ve gone over 60 posts, and I’ll be the first liberal to say that the OP is useless bullshit without any context. Anyone? Just a _little_ context? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/66 "2006-02-26T03:40:12Z")
Fox is, after all, the “news channel” that illustrated this so-called plot to destroy LA’s Library Tower with a shot from the movie “Independence Day”. [[http://mediamatters.org/items/200602090004](http://mediamatters.org/items/200602090004)] Why bother with PhotoShop when you can just screen-capture from a DVD? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/67 "2006-02-26T03:46:04Z")
For some reason, that link doesn’t work. Try: [http://mediamatters.org/items/200602090004](http://mediamatters.org/items/200602090004) > [@](#): > > From the February 9 edition of Fox News Live: > > BRIGITTE QUINN (Anchor): And again, back to what the president was saying a little while ago, this morning, in his speech on the “war on terror.” He talked about the U.S. Bank Tower – otherwise known as the Library Tower. We’ve been showing you pictures of that throughout the morning. A little background on that building that was apparently the target of a second wave of attacks that was to have been perpetrated by Al Qaeda. There are some pictures; and that’s one from the movie – the 1996 movie Independence Day. You might remember that. It was the – I guess the first building to be destroyed by the alien invaders in that movie, so, certainly a landmark. A couple of other factoids about it. The building was designed to withstand an earthquake; unclear how it would’ve withstood an attack by an airplane. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/68 "2006-02-26T04:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _originaly posted by \*\*\* RTFirefly_\* So if I’m critical of America, it’s because I’m a fucking idealist, and for some reason, despite everything I’ve seen in my life where it’s fallen short, America is still one of the things I’m an idealist about. It’s totally irrational, and it makes no sense, but there it is. This is true for me, and probably true for many of the others who do criticize the United States. Thankyou for saying it. Sometimes I find myself blindly furious with the “why do you hate America” crowd without having the right words to explain why they are such fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/69 "2006-02-26T04:40:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Wow: “openly partisan” + “can’t find anymore about it” = “presumption that they Photoshopped it.” No. “Openly Partisan” + “Doesn’t exist in original context on site” + “The two segments that day were about other things” + “The guest cited wasn’t on” + “Mediamatters wasn’t responsible enough to show the context” + “photoshop is really easy and they could have done it or anybody else could have done it an emailed it to them and they were too gullible to check” = “You will need to corroborate that this graphic actually occured **and** provide the context before I can take it seriously.” I’ve done a lot more work trying to find the truth of this than your gullible partisan ass has. > [@](#): > > Where’s that open mind now, huh? Waiting for the knee jerk rabid partisans to act responsibly and present me with a responsibly corroborated argument. > [@](#): > > And don’t you think that if anyone at Fox got wind of that, and found out it WAS made up (easy enough for them to verify), the whole gang at Fox would be all over MMfA by now? MMFA seems pretty two-bit to me. > [@](#): > > My mind’s open, but it’s not so open that it has to reconsider all possibilities every time. There’s nothing closeminded about ridiculing the notion that an open civil war, in which many thousands would die in a fairly short time, and most others would live in constant fear, could somehow be a good thing. Sure there is, if you don’t bother to understand the context in which the argument was made, or if it was made. > [@](#): > > I’ve got a pretty wide-ranging imagination, and if a proposition’s put forward that I can’t possibly imagine a humane argument in support of, I’ll go ahead and ridicule it now, and apologize later if the near-impossible (in a case like this) should happen and I’m wrong. How about you actually know what you’re talking about before you shoot off your mouth? In looking at Neil Cavuto’s show’s website, they often take questions from email and talk about opinions from email. If that graphic actually occured it does not mean that they were bringing the topic up. They may be responding to an email, guest or personage who brought it up, and the whole purpose may have been to explain why it would not be a good thing. Or, they may be showing a context or angle in which it is the lesser of two evils. Or, maybe they really think civil war would be good. It’s moronic and stupid to arbitrarily choose a context. A responsible thinker gets the facts. You don’t have them, and yet you are quick with the dismissal and quick to disparage. If anybody deserves to be disparaged for their opinions, it’s you for not bothering to know what you’re talking about. Worse than that, you know and admit you don’t know and can’t be bothered to find the truth before making up your mind and shooting your mouth off. > [@](#): > > That isn’t to say it’s _usually_ nearly impossible for me to be wrong, but on something like this, though, let’s be real. Yes, let’s be real. Go find out the context. Go bother to look and defend your position. That would be real. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/70 "2006-02-26T04:44:05Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > It speaks ill of this board that we’ve gone over 60 posts, and I’ll be the first liberal to say that the OP is useless bullshit without any context. > > Anyone? Just a _little_ context? Thank you. I actually looked, and I can’t find any reference to it on Foxnews, though they have references chronologically to all the Cavuto segments and a search feature. Find that it happened and show me the context, and if they’re irresponsibly endorsing civil war, I’ll happily condemn their stupidity and inhumanity. It’s nice to know that somebody else thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/71 "2006-02-26T04:48:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Fox is, after all, the “news channel” that illustrated this so-called plot to destroy LA’s Library Tower with a shot from the movie “Independence Day”. Ok. So what? What does that have to do with the subject at hand, which is this particular screen capture from Fox News? Felt like dining on red herring did you? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/72 "2006-02-26T04:58:41Z")
It’s getting harder every day to maintain your loyalty, isn’t it? The subject of the thread is Fox’s responsibility as a news source, and seriousness as a commentary source, with a subtext being a suggestion from one of the few remaining people who shares your blinkers that anything that says otherwise must be faked. Got it now, weird kid? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/73 "2006-02-26T05:11:33Z")
What does it mean if Google shows you a preview of content that doesn’t show up when you click on the link? If you Google “Fox News Iraq civil war good”, the first link says: > [@](#): > > [FOXNews.com](http://FOXNews.com) - Breaking News, US, World, Business, Politics …FOX News Channel offers breaking news and video in US and World, Entertainment, Health, … Will there be a civil war in Iraq? YOUR WORLD W/ NEIL CAVUTO … > [www.foxnews.com/](http://www.foxnews.com/) - 64k - Feb 24, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages But then the phrase “Will there be a civil war in Iraq?” doesn’t show up anywhere on the linked page. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/74 "2006-02-26T05:16:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The subject of the thread is Fox’s responsibility as a news source, Actually, it’s not. The subject of this thread is weather Fox News took the position “All-Out Civil War in Iraq: Could It Be a Good Thing?”, and beyond a couple of screen caps, nobody has presented any evidence that they did. Got any? Then present it and we can discuss it. Beyond that, however, you felt compelled to paint Fox as somehow unreliable because when talking about a plot to attack a building, they used an image of that building taken from a movie while clearly stating “There are some pictures; and that’s one from the movie – the 1996 movie Independence Day”. I am having trouble understanding exactly what is dishonest about that, or exactly what you think it proves. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/75 "2006-02-26T05:35:07Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > … and beyond a couple of screen caps, nobody has presented any evidence that they did. Okay, what really was on Fox at 2:05 Mountain Time on February 23, 2006? If you feel these screen caps are fraudulent, it should be pretty easy to clear up by demonstrating that something else was presented at that time on that date. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/76 "2006-02-26T05:46:52Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > What does it mean if Google shows you a preview of content that doesn’t show up when you click on the link? If you Google “Fox News Iraq civil war good”, the first link says: > > But then the phrase “Will there be a civil war in Iraq?” doesn’t show up anywhere on the linked page. The link brings you to the front page of the news. It means some or all of the words showed up there at some time. The front page changes because the news changes. If you look at the cached version on google it shows you the front page as it was on February 12, when the words “fox, news, war” appeared simultaneously on the front page. The other words didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/77 "2006-02-26T06:23:03Z")
I don’t know what was said on Fox but on CNN, Terry Jeffrey had [this](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/24/cnn-pundit-bombing/) to say: > [@](#): > > WOLF BLITZER: Terry, is Iraq falling apart right now? > > TERRY JEFFERY: Well, I certainly hope not, Wolf. But I think actually these attacks on Shia shrines can be attributed to the potential success of the Bush strategy. Talk about falling through the looking glass… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/78 "2006-02-26T14:09:45Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Okay, what really was on Fox at 2:05 Mountain Time on February 23, 2006? If you feel these screen caps are fraudulent, it should be pretty easy to clear up by demonstrating that something else was presented at that time on that date. More significantly, _Fox News_ could clear it up. And if it were false, they’d consider it an opportunity. **Scylla** : **Fox News knows about this.** You know how I know? Because along with the screenshot, MMfA provided phone numbers and email addresses for Fox News and Neil Cavuto, so that MMfA readers could call/email and holler at Fox for being crazy fucks. Chances that no one did? Approximately zero. Chance of no huge Fox News slam of MMfA if this screen shot was inaccurate? About the same. They’d _love_ to crucify MMfA. So where’s the big slam? If that’s the sound of crickets chirping, those screen shots are real. **VarlosZ** : what context could possibly justify that?? > [@Weirddave](#): > > The subject of this thread is weather Fox News took the position “All-Out Civil War in Iraq: Could It Be a Good Thing?”, and beyond a couple of screen caps, nobody has presented any evidence that they did. Let me refresh your recollection of the OP: > [@](#): > > What alternate universe do they live in, where this is even an interesting ‘devil’s advocate’ position? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/79 "2006-02-26T14:17:36Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > What does it mean if Google shows you a preview of content that doesn’t show up when you click on the link? If you Google “Fox News Iraq civil war good”, the first link says: > > But then the phrase “Will there be a civil war in Iraq?” doesn’t show up anywhere on the linked page. To me, it means Fox once again did “their usual thing” … Release crap and then chicken out and try to purge the records of it. Just like they did in the past. During the War On Christmas, Fox had “holiday this” and holiday that" on their site, and then quietly changed it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997/80 "2006-02-26T14:40:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > **Scylla** : **Fox News knows about this.** You know how I know? Because along with the screenshot, MMfA provided phone numbers and email addresses for Fox News and Neil Cavuto, so that MMfA readers could call/email and holler at Fox for being crazy fucks. MMFA is two bit and hackneyed and would benefit from any publicity. Why would Fox rise to the bait to give them credibility? Nobody but rabidly partisan left-wing nutjobs gives a shit about MMFA. They’ve posted an alleged screen capture and neglected to provide it’s context. No such segment can be found at Fox though they are all archived chronologically. None are missing because there two “your world” segments that day and they are **both** accounted for. Nobody gives a shit about MMFA. They don’t rise to the level worthy of contempt or getting shouted down. > [@](#): > > Chance of no huge Fox News slam of MMfA if this screen shot was inaccurate? About the same. They’d _love_ to crucify MMfA. Bullshit. FOX slamming MMFA would only do MMFA good as some people besides left-wing nutjobs might realize they exist. This is the point in time when you need to act intelligently and responsibly and establish the existance of your alleged screenshots with context. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-out-civil-war-in-iraq-could-it-be-a-good-thing-fox-news/345997.md?page=5)