# All religious people should be executed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863 "2010-06-12T00:15:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/301 "2010-06-21T11:40:24Z")
Actually - I must be getting soft in my old age! - I’m leaning more towards just asking them to STFU about what they believe in, unless it has any actual relevance to the topic at hand, which in near enough all instances I can think of, is never. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/302 "2010-06-22T14:59:35Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It’s the standard “Avowed atheists are not atheists because they are inconvenient to my atheism” and “Atheists working together for an atheistic ieology are actually religious because they behave like that”. Nice justification because it basically denies even the mental posibility of atheists comitting crimes as a group. > I’m sure a similar response would happen even if the batshit crazy OP was carried out. So you really are conflating communist atrocities with atheist atrocities. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/303 "2010-06-22T15:13:37Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > So you really are conflating communist atrocities with atheist atrocities. :dubious: There’s something of an interesting meta-question in there, to the effect of “is an expressly atheistic (that is, lacking god/afterlife) ideology still ‘Atheist’?” It probably can’t be addressed in a public forum in any kind of rational manner, but I’m curious myself as to how Stalinism ISN’T an “atheist” ideology. It’s certainly a dogmatic, ascientific ideology, but it’s still atheist in the strict sense. I get the feeling that some of you folks are using Atheist to mean “both Atheist and Adogmatic” and that’s kind of overloaded compared to the actual meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/304 "2010-06-22T16:09:31Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > So you really are conflating communist atrocities with atheist atrocities. :dubious: No. Communist atrocities are communist atrocities. Atheistic atrocities are atheistic atrocities. If the communist is an atheist or the atheist is acommunist there is no conflating. I’m not saying that all comunists are ahteists, however if the leadership is avowedly atheistic and orders the atrocities, then there is no escaping the reality. > [@Zeriel](#): > > There’s something of an interesting meta-question in there, to the effect of “is an expressly atheistic (that is, lacking god/afterlife) ideology still ‘Atheist’?” It probably can’t be addressed in a public forum in any kind of rational manner, but I’m curious myself as to how Stalinism ISN’T an “atheist” ideology. It’s certainly a dogmatic, ascientific ideology, but it’s still atheist in the strict sense. > > I get the feeling that some of you folks are using Atheist to mean “both Atheist and Adogmatic” and that’s kind of overloaded compared to the actual meaning. You’ve fucking nailed it. They want an unreal scenario that by definition precludes atheistic atrocities. If two atheists start killing religious people because “_they want to rid the earth of the vermin of superstition_” they’ll say “_they didn’t do it because they were ahteistic, they had the religion of killing religious people_.” ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/305 "2010-06-22T16:15:56Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > There’s something of an interesting meta-question in there, to the effect of “is an expressly atheistic (that is, lacking god/afterlife) ideology still ‘Atheist’?” It probably can’t be addressed in a public forum in any kind of rational manner, but I’m curious myself as to how Stalinism ISN’T an “atheist” ideology. It’s certainly a dogmatic, ascientific ideology, but it’s still atheist in the strict sense. > > I get the feeling that some of you folks are using Atheist to mean “both Atheist and Adogmatic” and that’s kind of overloaded compared to the actual meaning. I wouldn’t call Stalinism or any communist/socialist ideology an “atheist” ideology. These are ideologies that are anti-religion for the sole reason that religion was used to anesthetize and subjugate the workers. That’s not an atheist ideology. It’s a complex economic and political ideology in which atheism is only one part. The rallying cry of the Communist Manifesto is “Workers of the World, Unite!” not “Atheists of the World, Unite!” It would be like saying that tens of thousands of people were killed by Deists during the Reign of Terror. I mean, who says silly things like that unless they want to conflate Deism with Jacobins. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/306 "2010-06-22T17:55:24Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > I wouldn’t call Stalinism or any communist/socialist ideology an “atheist” ideology. These are ideologies that are anti-religion for the sole reason that religion was used to anesthetize and subjugate the workers. That’s not an atheist ideology. It’s a complex economic and political ideology in which atheism is only one part. The rallying cry of the Communist Manifesto is “Workers of the World, Unite!” not “Atheists of the World, Unite!” > > It would be like saying that tens of thousands of people were killed by Deists during the Reign of Terror. I mean, who says silly things like that unless they want to conflate Deism with Jacobins. The thing is–I have in fact heard people blame those kind of atrocities squarely on the religions of the people involved. I wouldn’t be surprised (but no cite, so no flat assertion) to find out that Trihs (for example) blames wars with sides generally delineated by religion on the religion without taking into account the geopolitics and other associated factors. So if religion takes the blame for things like the Crusades in toto, without regarding the geopolitics and population factors, then why doesn’t atheism take a share of the blame for Communism? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/307 "2010-06-22T18:52:51Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > I wouldn’t call Stalinism or any communist/socialist ideology an “atheist” ideology. These are ideologies that are anti-religion for the sole reason that religion was used to anesthetize and subjugate the workers. That’s not an atheist ideology. It’s a complex economic and political ideology in which atheism is only one part. The rallying cry of the Communist Manifesto is “Workers of the World, Unite!” not “Atheists of the World, Unite!” > > It would be like saying that tens of thousands of people were killed by Deists during the Reign of Terror. I mean, who says silly things like that unless they want to conflate Deism with Jacobins. I never said that the crux of communism is atheism. I’ll repeat that when atheists kill, atheists kill for whatever reason. When atheistic leaders command crimes, it is ahteists commiting crimes. The “Jacobin conflation” is par for the course in the SDMB. See below. > [@Zeriel](#): > > The thing is–I have in fact heard people blame those kind of atrocities squarely on the religions of the people involved. I wouldn’t be surprised (but no cite, so no flat assertion) to find out that Trihs (for example) blames wars with sides generally delineated by religion on the religion without taking into account the geopolitics and other associated factors. So if religion takes the blame for things like the Crusades in toto, without regarding the geopolitics and population factors, then why doesn’t atheism take a share of the blame for Communism? 100000000% right ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/308 "2010-06-22T19:48:39Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The thing is–I have in fact heard people blame those kind of atrocities squarely on the religions of the people involved. I wouldn’t be surprised (but no cite, so no flat assertion) to find out that Trihs (for example) blames wars with sides generally delineated by religion on the religion without taking into account the geopolitics and other associated factors. So if religion takes the blame for things like the Crusades in toto, without regarding the geopolitics and population factors, then why doesn’t atheism take a share of the blame for Communism? Geopolitics may have been a reason in some cases but religion was used as the rallying cry for the masses. Even if the leaders had ulterior motives, the people went on the crusades to remove the infidel from the Holy Land. People would have all their sins wiped clean if they went to war. I don’t think you can get more religious than that. There’s tons of examples of civil wars, inquisitions, pogroms, etc. where religion was the driving force. OTOH, I thought the driving force for communism was class struggle. Atheism (or really, anti-religion which is not necessarily the same thing) is only important because religion puts power in religious leaders and deludes the worker into accepting exploitation. I’m not denying that Stalin persecuted religious leaders in the Soviet Union, the communists persecuted Buddhists in Vietnam or China beats up on Tibet. But no one can say that 10s of millions of religious people died because of atheism. People died because of shitty policies like forced collectivization, civil wars or purges (based on politics besides religion). BTW, I just looked it up and a significant minority citizens in the Soviet Union followed various religions (about the same number as France). ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/309 "2010-06-22T20:13:53Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I never said that the crux of communism is atheism. > I’ll repeat that when atheists kill, atheists kill for whatever reason. When atheistic leaders command crimes, it is ahteists commiting crimes. You stated that 10s of millions of religious people were killed simply because of their religion by atheists . Then you started talking about an atheist ideology. Der Trihs mentioned the atheist=communist and that’s where you got 10s of millions of people. Now you’re saying that’s not what you mean? I’m going to stick with the notion that that is what you meant because there simply not enough examples of atheists killing religious people to add up to a handful of holocausts. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/310 "2010-06-22T20:45:50Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > That’s the whole point - it’s not banned. The only people left alive would be people who don’t believe it anyway. So it would just neatly remove the problem without all that messy business of banning ideas. Do Buddhists count as atheists? What about non-theistic cults like Scientology or Eckankar? What about Wiccan’s, neo-pagans, etc. who may practice some form of occultism but don’t necessarily have a religious belief system? I’m trying to get a handle on whether or not you’re targeting all supernaturalists or just theists. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/311 "2010-06-22T20:57:36Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Okay, then who’s going to write all the brainless religious rants? The same people who write brainless political speeches. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/312 "2010-06-22T21:15:28Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The same people who write brainless political speeches. And we’re back to the zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/313 "2010-06-22T21:19:15Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The thing is–I have in fact heard people blame those kind of atrocities squarely on the religions of the people involved. I wouldn’t be surprised (but no cite, so no flat assertion) to find out that Trihs (for example) blames wars with sides generally delineated by religion on the religion without taking into account the geopolitics and other associated factors. So if religion takes the blame for things like the Crusades in toto, without regarding the geopolitics and population factors, then why doesn’t atheism take a share of the blame for Communism? Because atheism and religion are not the same kind of thing. Atheism postulates that there’s no such things as gods. That’s all. It doesn’t even say whether or not that is a good thing, much less tell you to kill people over it. Atheism is nothing more than disbelief in a particular class of myth, not a belief system like Communism or religions are. When a religion - or Communism - tells people that unbelievers are evil and must be converted by force or killed, then yes I blame the religion when its follows do just that. Atheism doesn’t tell people to do anything. You don’t want to bring up the Crusades? Fine; there’s still a mountain of evil to be laid at the feet of religion. You can hardly say the same about Communism and atheism. Labeling atheism as evil because of Communism is like calling all religion a child molestation cult because of the Catholic Church. Communism is belief system that happened to have atheism as part of its tenets; and it killed people over that just as it killed people over its other tenets. Remove that official atheism and it would have acted the same. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/314 "2010-06-22T21:28:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Labeling atheism as evil because of Communism is like calling all religion a child molestation cult because of the Catholic Church. “Suffer the little children to come unto me.” Suffer. Come. Wow, Jesus was into the wit and irony. Persons who bring up crap about translations and original wordings will be the first against the wall. ---
**Author:** ![PsyXe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@PsyXe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PsyXe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/315 "2010-06-22T21:42:32Z")
Bloody hell. _bang_ _Is dead ITO this thread_ ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/316 "2010-06-22T21:43:06Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Do Buddhists count as atheists? What about non-theistic cults like Scientology or Eckankar? All religions. All must die. > [@](#): > > What about Wiccan’s, neo-pagans, etc. who may practice some form of occultism but don’t necessarily have a religious belief system? I’m trying to get a handle on whether or not you’re targeting all supernaturalists or just theists. Just theists at the moment. Wicca, pagans etc still believe in higher powers/earthforce and whatnot. Execute them all without mercy. People who think they have telekinetic powers or can dowse and stuff we can keep around for amusement. But there’s wiggle room - we can always execute if enough people feel strongly that we should. I’m not unreasonable. I’m always open to negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/317 "2010-06-22T22:14:19Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > You stated that 10s of millions of religious people were killed simply because of their religion by atheists . Then you started talking about an atheist ideology. Der Trihs mentioned the atheist=communist and that’s where you got 10s of millions of people. Now you’re saying that’s not what you mean? I’m going to stick with the notion that that is what you meant because there simply not enough examples of atheists killing religious people to add up to a handful of holocausts. Atheists killed people who were religious because those religious beliefs were not acceptable to them. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because atheism and religion are not the same kind of thing. Atheism postulates that there’s no such things as gods. That’s all. It doesn’t even say whether or not that is a good thing, much less tell you to kill people over it. Atheism is nothing more than disbelief in a particular class of myth, not a belief system like Communism or religions are. When a religion - or Communism - tells people that unbelievers are evil and must be converted by force or killed, then yes I blame the religion when its follows do just that. Atheism doesn’t tell people to do anything. > > You don’t want to bring up the Crusades? Fine; there’s still a mountain of evil to be laid at the feet of religion. You can hardly say the same about Communism and atheism. Labeling atheism as evil because of Communism is like calling all religion a child molestation cult because of the Catholic Church. Communism is belief system that happened to have atheism as part of its tenets; and it killed people over that just as it killed people over its other tenets. Remove that official atheism and it would have acted the same. Your line is still “_atheists cannot do bad things because atheism doesn’t tell you to do anything_” and of course the moment an atheist does something bad it cannot be due to his atheism, it is always in spite of or completely disconnected. How nice to think that it makes real-world sense. Communism has been around only for 150 years or so. Even if it were better than, say, Catholicism, there isn’t enough data to make a good comparison. However, whenever communists have come to real power, it’s open season religion. You can now continue in your fantasy world. (yeah, I said fantasy and I believe in the spirit of a dead Jewish carpenter) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/318 "2010-06-22T23:20:55Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Atheists killed people who were religious because those religious beliefs were not acceptable to them. But _why_ were these religious beliefs unacceptable to them? Not because the murderers were athests. Ever. There is always some other, unrelated reason for the antipathy. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Your line is still “_atheists cannot do bad things because atheism doesn’t tell you to do anything_” and of course the moment an atheist does something bad it cannot be due to his atheism, it is always in spite of or completely disconnected. > How nice to think that it makes real-world sense. In what fantasy land of yours are the atheists killing other people because their atheism tells them to - or even because the theism offends their own atheistic sense? I’ll answer for you: this thread. And this thread _only_. In the case of communism, the communists may have been atheists, and their victims may have been theists, but it was never the case that the communists’ atheism was the reason for the murders. It was always because there was a _separate_ reason for attacking theists, specifically in this case because the religions were competition for the marxistish political philosophy of communism. Now’s your chance to say that communism is an atheist philosophy. Which it is - in the same way that Christianity is all about eating bread and drinking wine. Which is to say that’s clearly not what it’s about and it’s obviously incorrect to describe it as though the tandential detail was the driving philosophy. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You can now continue in your fantasy world. (yeah, I said fantasy and I believe in the spirit of a dead Jewish carpenter) Which tells me you’re not qualified to identify fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/319 "2010-06-22T23:44:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But _why_ were these religious beliefs unacceptable to them? Not because the murderers were athests. Ever. There is always some other, unrelated reason for the antipathy. > > In what fantasy land of yours are the atheists killing other people because their atheism tells them to - or even because the theism offends their own atheistic sense? > > I’ll answer for you: this thread. And this thread _only_. In the case of communism, the communists may have been atheists, and their victims may have been theists, but it was never the case that the communists’ atheism was the reason for the murders. It was always because there was a _separate_ reason for attacking theists, specifically in this case because the religions were competition for the marxistish political philosophy of communism. > > Now’s your chance to say that communism is an atheist philosophy. Which it is - in the same way that Christianity is all about eating bread and drinking wine. Which is to say that’s clearly not what it’s about and it’s obviously incorrect to describe it as though the tandential detail was the driving philosophy. > > Which tells me you’re not qualified to identify fantasy. Whatever gets you through the night, honey. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863/320 "2010-06-22T23:45:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Atheists killed people who were religious because those religious beliefs were not acceptable to them. Because they were competition. Just like Muslims and Christians killing each other; Communism is really more of a religion than anything else, and it acts like one. Intolerant, incompetent, delusional, ruthless. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Your line is still “_atheists cannot do bad things because atheism doesn’t tell you to do anything_” and of course the moment an atheist does something bad it cannot be due to his atheism, it is always in spite of or completely disconnected. No; they can’t do bad - or good - things because of their atheism. Atheism is just an absence. Unlike religion, which is a whole system of false beliefs and commands you are supposed to obey. Atheism and Communism/religion aren’t remotely alike. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-religious-people-should-be-executed/542863.md?page=17)