# All right, explain it to me. How is Fairytale of New York NOT a depressing song? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522 "2007-12-18T23:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/1 "2007-12-18T23:35:25Z")
In another thread I called The Pogue’s Fairytale of New York the most depressing Christmas song ever. Well, quite a few people have taken exception to my description of the song. Apparently, on the other side of the pond, they play it right along with We Wish You A Merry Christmas. O.K., I can see how Guinness goes great with figgy pudding. but Fairytale a _happy_ song? I’ve listened and listened and I cannot hear the ‘love will out’ message. What I hear is heartbreak and disappointment. These two cannot stand each other. They blame each other for the fucked up life they lead and he ends up “loving” her pretty much because that’s all he’s got. But it’s less than a week to Christmas and I’m ready for some good will and cheer. 'Splain the happy, please. ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/2 "2007-12-18T23:52:21Z")
Oddly enough, the husband and I were discussing this this morning and he could not believe me when I mentioned that some folks on here found it a depressing song. It just sounds to me like a couple very much in love having an ugly fight on Christmas. Which…yeah that does sound depressing, but between the jaunty music, the lovely video which ends with the two of them dancing together, and the beautiful lyrics, IMO there is a hopefulness behind all of that. I’ve been listening to this song on a loop today trying to kickstart myself into the Christmas spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/3 "2007-12-19T00:04:47Z")
[QUOTE=NailBunny] It just sounds to me like a couple very much in love having an ugly fight on Christmas. Which…yeah that does sound depressing, but between the jaunty music, the lovely video which ends with the two of them dancing together, and the beautiful lyrics, IMO there is a hopefulness behind all of that. [/quote] I’ve never seen the video and the lyrics are, um, beautiful? \*You’re a bum You’re a punk You’re an old slut on junk Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed You scumbag, you maggot You cheap lousy faggot Happy Christmas your arse I pray God it’s our last \* Poignant. Heartrending. But beautiful? It’s not like there’s a fight and they make up. No-- they just. . . stop screaming at each other. > [@](#): > > I’ve been listening to this song on a loop today trying to kickstart myself into the Christmas spirit. Ooops. I don’t think I helped. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/4 "2007-12-19T00:05:58Z")
[QUOTE=NailBunny] It just sounds to me like a couple very much in love having an ugly fight on Christmas. Which…yeah that does sound depressing, but between the jaunty music, the lovely video which ends with the two of them dancing together, and the beautiful lyrics, IMO there is a hopefulness behind all of that [/QUOTE] I honestly can’t see any hope in there at all. In the end, when he stops slagging her off, and starts saying he loves her again, she…doesn’t reply at all. Her last section in the song amounts to ‘you’re a loser, and I’ve wasted my life on you’. That he goes on to protest his love for her just makes her obvious contempt for him more depressing. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/5 "2007-12-19T00:09:28Z")
WHAT?! I have no idea how anyone could find that a non-depressing song. The only “love” present is the battered abusive junkie love. It’s all in the lyrics > [@](#): > > [_A verse or two about how good things used to be_] > > Youre a bum > Youre a punk > Youre an old slut on junk > Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed > You scumbag, you maggot > You cheap lousy faggot Seems pretty straightforward: you used to be cool, I built my dreams around you and you dragged me down and now we both suck 'cause you’re a heroin addict and I’m a drunk. Or is it vice-versa? Merry fucking Christmas. OTOH, it may be the only Christmas song with “faggot” in they lyrics, so it’s got that going for it. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/6 "2007-12-19T00:21:30Z")
Oh it’s absoulutly a depressing Christmas song. Especially if you notice that the opening of the song is really just a prologue to the flashback that is the rest of the song. But the hope is also built into this prologue, and I think this is where people get the idea that love wins out. Read: It’s Christmas Evening In the drunk tank An old man says to me won’t see another one Cue flashback as indicated by the abrupt shift in music. Now personally I think that the people who read hope into this are wrong, and the song is about the tragedy of the immigrant coming to New York with his lady love and dieing alone on Christmas in a drunk tank. Hence \*Fairytale \* of New York, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/7 "2007-12-19T00:24:36Z")
I guess it’s too late to caution all about fair use, huh? Don’t quote too much song, it’s against board rules. ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/8 "2007-12-19T00:26:24Z")
I’m very familiar with the lyrics, thank you. Hey, you asked. Apparently I’m in the minority which, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/9 "2007-12-19T00:29:14Z")
Sorry if I over quoted the song. I really just kind of pulled it from memory and it didn’t seem like that much when I typed it in. It is also less then 1/4 of the total song lyrics. Don’t know where the cutoff is. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/10 "2007-12-19T00:35:57Z")
AFAIC, all of the quotes _have_ been fair use. All of the snippets have been used to demonstrate each poster’s interpretation of the song. FWIW, I agree with the others that this song is a bitter tragedy. I see no hope there. **NAF1138** comes closest to highlighting the key point. In the prologue at the drunk tank, the guy’s optimistic that things are going to get better. But when the lyrics flashback, you see that that’s been their entire life story. THIS time things will get better, THIS year will be our year. Even locked in the drunk tank on Christmas Eve he’s incapable of admitting to himself the bitter truth. Their whole relationship was based on false hope. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/11 "2007-12-19T00:36:40Z")
[QUOTE=NailBunny] I’m very familiar with the lyrics, thank you. Hey, you asked. Apparently I’m in the minority which, whatever. [/QUOTE] No, no-- **NAF** didn’t ask, I did. And no getting angry over opinions! It’s Christmas, damnit! So let’s all have some fucking good cheer and will toward men! Just in case I wasn’t the only one not to see it, here’s the video. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ltiY-BqvOIU/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/ltiY-BqvOIU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/12 "2007-12-19T00:39:14Z")
This thread needs more of those who agree with **Bunny**. There are more than a little of them. From all reports it’s a happy staple in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/13 "2007-12-19T00:40:48Z")
Also, don’t get me wrong, I love the song. I just recommended it for a Christmas mix in another thread. It is hands down my favorite Christmas song. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think it is a sad song. ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/14 "2007-12-19T00:44:03Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] No, no-- **NAF** didn’t ask, I did. And no getting angry over opinions! It’s Christmas, damnit! So let’s all have some fucking good cheer and will toward men! Just in case I wasn’t the only one not to see it, here’s the video. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ltiY-BqvOIU/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/ltiY-BqvOIU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [/QUOTE] Sorry, I wasn’t clear - I was directing that statement toward you, not **NAF**. And everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I was just a little butthurt that everyone immediately threw the lyrics at me like I’d never heard the song before. As I said: I listen to it non-stop pretty much every Christmas, and it makes me feel good, and not at all sad. Sorry it doesn’t do the same for all ya’all. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/15 "2007-12-19T00:48:40Z")
[QUOTE=NailBunny] I was just a little butthurt that everyone immediately threw the lyrics at me like I’d never heard the song before. As I said: I listen to it non-stop pretty much every Christmas, and it makes me feel good, and not at all sad. Sorry it doesn’t do the same for all ya’all. [/QUOTE] I don’t think anybody was throwing lyrics at you, they’re just answering **Biggirl’s** question and supporting their opinions by quoting the lyrics. It seems to me that you relate to the song more through the music and video than through any specific interpretation of the lyrics. That’s a perfectly valid response. I admit that I’ve loved the song ever since its first release, but I never really thought about how tragic the lyrics were until several years later. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/16 "2007-12-19T00:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=NailBunny] Sorry, I wasn’t clear - I was directing that statement toward you, not **NAF**. And everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I was just a little butthurt that everyone immediately threw the lyrics at me like I’d never heard the song before. As I said: I listen to it non-stop pretty much every Christmas, and it makes me feel good, and not at all sad. Sorry it doesn’t do the same for all ya’all. [/QUOTE] Ah, it was all for me. Now I’m afraid to ask since I don’t want you to feel like I’m ganging up on you but. . . I didn’t throw the lyrics in your face. You said you found them beautiful. I pulled up some lyrics that-- to me-- were heartrending. I was hoping for some discussion on the song and it’s meaning _to you_. I didn’t know how else to do it but to show you what the lyrics mean to me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/17 "2007-12-19T00:59:10Z")
FWIW, [Shane McGowan doesn’t characterize it as a depressing song](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/qanda/story/0,,1667076,00.html), but he doesn’t quite say it’s an uplifting one, either: > [@](#): > > [The lyrics are] about any fucked up relationship based on a promise that nobody can keep. The song’s not meant to be about just one person; it’s about what people are doing at Christmas. They’re dying or not dying or trying to patch up something or even marrying someone. Christmas is one of those times when you’re forced together with other people you’re supposed to love. > > […] > > What I like about it, and what I think people like about it, is that it’s got a great character, but it’s not depressing. It’s just life at Christmas. I think the Pogues are far more unreasonable than Nick Cave and probably even more unreasonable than the Sex Pistols ever were. Certainly less commercial. And yet we’ve got this incredibly popular Christmas hit. But as long as people are pissed off there will always be an audience for that song. Personally, I find it a very melancholy, bitter and heart-wrenching song. I don’t quite get a sense of hope from it, but it is a gorgeous song. ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/18 "2007-12-19T01:01:33Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Ah, it was all for me. Now I’m afraid to ask since I don’t want you to feel like I’m ganging up on you but. . . I didn’t throw the lyrics in your face. You said you found them beautiful. I pulled up some lyrics that-- to me-- were heartrending. [/QUOTE] I do find them beautiful. I think Shane is a temendous writer who can convey very much with only a few simple lines. I was thinking specifically of _“I kept 'em with me babe, I put them with my own”_ Which means to me that her dreams have become his, he’d never allow her to feel like they’ve been abandoned, and just because they’re going through an awful time at the moment doesn’t mean they should despair for the future. [QUOTE=Biggirl] I was hoping for some discussion on the song and it’s meaning _to you_. I didn’t know how else to do it but to show you what the lyrics mean to me. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. I hope the above helps. Personally, the song for me holds many happy memories of drunkenly carolling along to it with many good friends, so maybe that’s coloured my judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/19 "2007-12-19T01:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] OTOH, it may be the only Christmas song with “faggot” in they lyrics, so it’s got that going for it. [/QUOTE] [Don’t speak too soon](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7149525.stm). ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522/20 "2007-12-19T01:17:46Z")
However, worry not. Since that report, I’m informed Radio 1 has now been compelled to reinstate the original lyric by irate listeners. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-right-explain-it-to-me-how-is-fairytale-of-new-york-not-a-depressing-song/430522.md?page=2)