# All these men.... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284 "2017-12-12T15:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/21 "2017-12-12T21:19:54Z")
Part of it is whether they care to come back. A lot of them are already multimillionaires. Isn’t Weinstein a billionaire? It’s not like these guys are losing their livelihood and have to go back to hustling on the street, and many of them are already near retirement age. It’s more of an insult to them that they lost their jobs than a serious financial difficulty. I can imagine some of them might just say “Screw it, I don’t need to work anymore. I’ll just go pout in one of my mansions, surrounded by gorgeous models”. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/22 "2017-12-13T06:18:28Z")
The biggest thing these guys have going for them is that there are so many nobody can keep up. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/23 "2017-12-13T06:31:57Z")
> [@convextech](#): > > Personally, all these women coming out after the fact is getting ridiculous, and I’m a female. > > If you can’t stand up and point it out the minute it happens, you shouldn’t be allowed to come back years later and ruin somebody’s career over it. You being silent gave them a free pass. > > JMHO. This post literally made me nauseous. How fucking heartless. If a 14 year old girl was strong enough to immediately go to the police and press charges because an older, powerful man sexually abused her, she would have been strong enough to say “no, keep your hands off of me” in the first place. The minute it happens?? The fuck? Have you ever been raped? What, do you think that, after the rape is over, the victim gets up, brushes off the dirt and says “well I’m off to the police to immediately report this!”. And they ruined their own fucking careers by being sexual predators, but nice victim blaming there! I bet Roy kiddie-diddler Moore and Grab 'em by the pussy trump love people like you who will stick up for them and blame their victims. Bloody hell, have a bit of compassion. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/24 "2017-12-13T07:03:03Z")
They could have the used the Clinton “deny-deny-deny” approach. Say “I don’t know who this woman is and I have no recollection of ever having seen her.” Then wait for her to produce some plausible evidence that any misbehavior ever occurred. They can refuse to resign from elected office, but there is nothing they can do about being fired by a private employer or contractor. Failing that, it may be necessary to schedule an off-year election day, to elect legislators to seats vacated by the accused. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/25 "2017-12-13T07:16:33Z")
Spacey sexually assaulted minors. Next to Weinstein, I think he’s the least likely to recover his career in any significant way. Lauer’s probably done, too. If not by the accusations, then by the fact that GMA’s ratings, which have been poor the last few years, are through the roof since Lauer got shitcanned. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/26 "2017-12-13T07:26:58Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > This post literally made me nauseous. How fucking heartless. If a 14 year old girl was strong enough to immediately go to the police and press charges because an older, powerful man sexually abused her, she would have been strong enough to say “no, keep your hands off of me” in the first place. Oh, she may have said it. But it takes some very good lungs to say it so loud the neighbors come running. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/27 "2017-12-13T08:51:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Spacey sexually assaulted minors. Next to Weinstein, I think he’s the least likely to recover his career in any significant way. ☹ I think **Locah** is right. I think the fact he has not admitted to assulting women, married to the fact that he has not admitted any wrongdoing, plus the fact he is unlikely to see any significant or indeed any, penal sanction, means that a few years from now someone will take a chance on him. Society as a whole take sexual assualt on males much less seriously than on women or young children—Spacey’s victims were either late teens or young adults. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/28 "2017-12-13T09:04:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Lauer’s probably done, too. If not by the accusations, then by the fact that GMA’s ratings, which have been poor the last few years, are through the roof since Lauer got shitcanned. I’m not sure what you mean by that. Did the ratings of the Today Show go down correspondingly? Regardless. doesn’t the fact that the Today Show’s competitor’s rating shot through the roof going to make the producers of the Today Show regret firing Laurer? ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/29 "2017-12-13T13:34:13Z")
Louis CK will be back. He’ll write a set about it, mocking himself relentlessly, and will give the proceeds of the tour to NOW, Planned Parenthood, or some other organization which helps women. He can truthfully say that he always maintained that he is vile and stupid and people shouldn’t have been surprised that he was telling the truth. His transgressions didn’t involve any physical contact with women and, as far as I know, nobody has alleged that he actually hurt their careers. He self funds many of his projects so he doesn’t have to convince someone to back him. He can do it himself and if he’s still funny people will keep buying. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/30 "2017-12-13T18:24:46Z")
> [@convextech](#): > > Personally, all these women coming out after the fact is getting ridiculous, and I’m a female. > > If you can’t stand up and point it out the minute it happens, you shouldn’t be allowed to come back years later and ruin somebody’s career over it. You being silent gave them a free pass. > > JMHO. I don’t agree with this (I’m a male, FWIW). There’s a saying, “Don’t mock the alligator until you are across the stream.” An actress who is just embarking on the beginning of her Hollywood career is in a fragile position, career-wise. If she speaks out against sexual harassment, she could have her career nipped in the bud right then and there. For her to wait until decades later, when she is firmly and securely entrenched in a stable career, and \*then \*speak out against the bosses who harassed her decades earlier, makes perfect pragmatic sense. It’s probably not the best thing to do, but from her career perspective, it’s the practical approach. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/31 "2017-12-14T14:24:31Z")
I find it difficult to have any sympathy for these guys. They’ve apparently been granted a lot more leeway in the workplace than most of us could ever imagine getting away with and they’ve taken advantage of that to an outrageous degree. Boo-Hoo for those jerks, they finally got caught. For each one of them there are a dozen decent people waiting for a chance at the job. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/32 "2017-12-14T15:14:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever some of these men will be right back at it quite soon. > > It depends on the severity of the accusations. Louis CK will be back in form within eighteen months; Kevin Spacey will take years to rehabilitate; Harvey Weinstein won’t be welcome in any entertainment job for the rest of his life. I agree with your assessment. Louis CK funds mostbof his own content so he can start putting out product on his own and start slow. Spacey will get offered a stage role or a pivitol supporting role in a movie in a few years and will start to come back. Weinstein will not get anyone to work with him even if nothing comes from the criminal investigations. > [@NDP](#): > > It also depends upon how weil-liked these people were within the industry. I agree with your assessment of Weinstein not only because he has an extensive track record of rape and sexual assault but also he’s been a hated and despised (albeit powerful) figure in Hollywood for years. Even people who he didn’t put his fat paws on are relieved he’s finally going down. As for Spacey, he seemed to be more popular but now that he’s been exposed as a creepy sociopath, I doubt even people who initially liked him would want anything to do with him. Louis CK probably has enough friends within the comedy circuit that he has the best chance at bouncing back but, in my uneducated opinion, he actually seems to have a mental illness that, not so long ago, would’ve resulted in his being locked up in an asylum for a long time. Weinstein is a deeply sick individual. It seems like he has severe rage issues towards everyone on top of his mistreatment of women. After hearing the stories from people like Selma Hayek it amazes me that there was anyone who was on friendly terms with him even if they didn’t know what he was doing towards women. How the hell did it take Ronan Farrow to bring this to light? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/33 "2017-12-14T16:05:40Z")
Lots of men have come back from controversy or sexual harassment charges. Schwarzenegger, Bill Clinton, Alec Baldwin (his phone call to his daughter), Ted Kennedy (car wreck). I think it depends on various factors. How marketable is the celebrity How much of a goody two shoes image do they have How vile was their behavior (kids or rape is worse than harassment) How much is the celebrity self funded How they treat their victims after they come out Etc. I think Louis CK will bounce back and fully agree with gus on his prognosis. Louis will apologize, make fun of himself and donate money to centers for women. He is also self funded so he will no depend on other pellets to take a chance on him. Also importantly Louis had always owned up to being a piece of shit. He never pretend to be morally superior to everyone like Roy Moore. As far as how they treat their victims, sadly we are learning the wrong lesson. If you deny everything and threaten your victims after they come out, society is more forgiving than if you admit guilt and seek treatment. As a society that is really fucked up. Moore and trump denied and threatened, and society gave them a pass for it. We are learning the wrong lessons. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/34 "2017-12-14T16:18:41Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I find the story of Arnold Schwarzenegger instructive. > > If my memory serves, while he was running for Governor of California stories of his history of groping resulting in the nickname “The Gropenator”. This was widely used in the media, and the Doonesbury comic strip used it for a number of story lines. > > He survived the accusations, and it did not impact his political or entertainment career. His marriage, however, did NOT. Or more specifically, it wasn’t so much accusations as the living, breathing child he fathered on the family’s housekeeper. Maria Schriver kicked him to the curb for that. He didn’t lose his career, he lost his family. Arnold took time out to sort out the mess, he’s acknowledged his out-of-wedlock son, and kept out of the public eye while (presumably) making amends. He doesn’t deny he did wrong. To be honest, Arnold doesn’t have to work another day in his life. He works because that’s his personality, he has to be doing something whether or not that’s in the public eye. > [@](#): > > Due to the current climate, he may still have his “time in the barrel”, as they say, but I suspect he will be unscathed. Arnold’s transgressions are old news and he doesn’t deny he did wrong. I just don’t see the same level of hostility being thrown at him as some of the others. In part, it’s because there hasn’t (to my knowledge) been any more reports of inappropriate behavior. Enough time has gone by that he’s demonstrated better behavior. If new reports of crap comes out, though, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/35 "2017-12-14T16:22:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > My bet. > Harvey Weinstein should thank his lucky stars if he avoids prison. Yes. > [@](#): > > Kevin Spacey is too good an actor to stay down. Somebody will take a chance on him in a few years. Questionable. There are good actors that can’t get work in Hollywood. Spacey apparently has alienated a lot of people. > [@](#): > > Matt Lauer: No idea how US TV works so no comment. He’s done. He’s not coming back from that. > [@](#): > > Al Franken: I think he has a good career as a pundit on TV. He may also get a Cabinet position in a future Democratic administration. Of course he could be a good pundit on TV, that was sort of what he was doing before he became a senator. Or he could go into political comedy. Not so sure about his future political career. Some time would have to pass. It is even possible that Minnesota could send him back to the Senate, stranger things have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/36 "2017-12-14T16:32:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > His marriage, however, did NOT. > > Or more specifically, it wasn’t so much accusations as the living, breathing child he fathered on the family’s housekeeper. Maria Schriver kicked him to the curb for that. He didn’t lose his career, he lost his family. > > Arnold took time out to sort out the mess, he’s acknowledged his out-of-wedlock son, and kept out of the public eye while (presumably) making amends. He doesn’t deny he did wrong. > > To be honest, Arnold doesn’t have to work another day in his life. He works because that’s his personality, he has to be doing something whether or not that’s in the public eye. > Arnold’s transgressions are old news and he doesn’t deny he did wrong. I just don’t see the same level of hostility being thrown at him as some of the others. In part, it’s because there hasn’t (to my knowledge) been any more reports of inappropriate behavior. Enough time has gone by that he’s demonstrated better behavior. > > If new reports of crap comes out, though, all bets are off. Well, I separate the love-child and marriage ending from the earlier reports of his groping nature. It is possible that his earlier accusers will come back to say “Hey, what about what I said earlier? How does he still have a career?” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/37 "2017-12-14T16:44:12Z")
Having an affair and a child with your family’s housekeeper (who, btw, was married to someone else at the time) is in my mind a worse offense than an inappropriate touch. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/38 "2017-12-14T17:34:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Having an affair and a child with your family’s housekeeper (who, btw, was married to someone else at the time) is in my mind a worse offense than an inappropriate touch. Exact opposite to me. Breaking you vows with someone is ultimately an issue between two people. Touching someone sexually against their wishes is a criminal offense and indicates at least the potential to do worse criminal offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/39 "2017-12-14T17:54:06Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by that. Did the ratings of the Today Show go down correspondingly? Regardless. doesn’t the fact that the Today Show’s competitor’s rating shot through the roof going to make the producers of the Today Show regret firing Laurer? :smack: I meant the ratings for The Today Show have jumped since Lauer was fired. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284/40 "2017-12-14T18:09:42Z")
Some of it also depends on if we’ve just had a sea change moment, or if when this moment is done, we go back to business as usual. If this has been a sea change moment, then comparisions to anyone who had accusations leveled against them prior to 2017 are moot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-these-men/804284.md?page=3)