# All this talk of increased Airport security.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2001, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261 "2001-09-13T03:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dwtno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@dwtno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwtno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/21 "2001-09-14T04:37:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **Omniscient** > I’m really eager to hear the voice recorder tapes of these events. I truly hope the ones in NYC are salvagable. It may shed alot of light on what actually happened. You realize, of course, that you will never, _ever_ hear anything from those cockpit voice recorders. No cockpit voice recordings are ever made public. You’ll get to read transcripts soon, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/22 "2001-09-14T05:22:00Z")
dwtno, that is patently false. I’ve heard several cockpit communications in both air crashes and other aircraft related Dateline-type TV specials. Granted it may not be broadcast in the next days or weeks, but if they are salavaged we will hear them at some point. ---
**Author:** ![dwtno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@dwtno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwtno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/23 "2001-09-14T12:15:37Z")
From the NTSB web site: [http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR\_FDR.htm](http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR_FDR.htm) “Due to the highly sensitive nature of the verbal communications inside the cockpit, Congress has required that the Safety Board not release any part of a CVR tape recording.” That being said, I found at least one site that actually has clips of what they claim to be cockpit voice recordings: [http://aviation-safety.net/cvr/cvrwav.htm](http://aviation-safety.net/cvr/cvrwav.htm) So color me confused. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/24 "2001-09-14T22:41:30Z")
dwtno, that is unusual. I wonder if there is an ammendment or more complete version of the relevent statute on this. I know for a fact that I saw, in the last 4 months, a Dateline special which focused on a man who in a deranged state (attributed to a brain infection in court where he was acquited IIRC) feared the aircraft was going to be crashed by the pilots. He attacked a stewardess, forced his way into the cockpit and tried to wrestle the controls away from the pilot before being physically restrained by a pair of large male passengers. I recall vividly hearing exerpts of the CVR tapes aired to lend context to the story. Granted all this was aired over a year after the events, so perhaps there is a time limit on the ban you cited. Wish I had a cite or could recall more specific details such as names or flight numbers, but I have no doubt it occured. But, back to the OP… ---
**Author:** ![xekul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/838e76/32.png) [@xekul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xekul)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/25 "2001-09-15T00:03:49Z")
Not that I disagree with the increased security measures, but one problem with trying to ban knives is that there are many nonferrous materials that can hold a decent cutting edge or stabbing point, and none of these will set off a metal detector: titanium, carbon fibre, G-10, fibreglass, any plastic, and even flint or obsidian. The only way to prevent a knife made with such a material from being smuggled aboard is to strip search every passenger, which is a violation many flyers will not submit to. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/26 "2001-09-15T10:26:48Z")
People won’t fly if it’s not worth the trouble. Airline business traveling will phase out if the benefit of flying does not offset the time spent. Airline leisure travel will go down the tubes, even if we don’t go to war. (Not much leisure travel in wartime.) We’ll stick to good ol’ planes, trains and automobiles. Unless they come up with worthwhile security restrictions, not just one band-aid on top of another. And I can’t help thinking of what…was it Scotty or Spock? I always forget?..said: “The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/27 "2001-09-15T14:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Omniscient \* > **…However, the planes were coming in low over the city at approach speeds. This would have to raise serious alarm among passengers that it wasn’t like the terrorist hijackings we’ve seen over the decades.** It’s entirely likely that passengers were ordered to close all the window shades, or, as others have mentioned, were herded to the back of the plane and the terrorists themselves walked up the aisles closing those shades. There are a lot of explanations as to why they may not have seen _anything_. > [@](#): > > **In order to navigate the craft to its target like they were, the pilot had to be virtually unharrassed up to the final seconds.** Absolutely untrue. Have you not been reading or listening to the news? The terrorists were trained pilots. They **took control** of the planes, themselves, and **they** flew those planes into those buildings. And they surely had control long before the final seconds. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by London\_Calling_ > **I don’t have the time to research this but at sometime during the past two years, the FBI tested security at US domestic airports and 65% of the time were able to board domestic flights with their weapons. Generally, they didn’t go through the conventional routes but rather gained access through open side doors and through staff entrances. There is an official report somewhere.** [Here’s an article](http://www.securityworld.com/library/travelrec/airportsecurity.html) that discusses some of those breaches. It’s clear that we need to improve security from the inside out. It disgusts me to know that the FAA was aware of the ease with which terrorists might be able to access planes, yet seemed to do nothing about it except levy fines ( [http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/boston-airport.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/boston-airport.htm) ) > [@](#): > > In 1999, the major airlines at Logan and the Port Authority were fined a total of $178,000 for at least 136 security violations over the previous two years. In the majority of incidents, screeners hired by the airlines for checkpoints in terminals routinely failed to detect test items, such as pipe bombs and guns. > > Also in 1999, a teen-ager who said he wanted to impress the Israeli intelligence agency allegedly sliced through a fence and settled into an empty seat on a British Airways jet and flew to London. And the attitude of the airlines themselves is utterly appalling. ( [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/crime/A14031-2001Sep11.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/crime/A14031-2001Sep11.html) ) > [@](#): > > In July, the Federal Aviation Administration said it would seek $99,000 in fines from American Airlines because of lax security… > > On a single day in June 2000, the FAA said, American failed to perform a passenger identification check on two flights, hauled unaccompanied bags on five flights and failed to ask proper questions about baggage on two flights. An American spokesman called the fine “excessive” and said the problems have been fixed. Yeah, right. Bastards. Bet you’ll fix them _now_, won’t you! Frankly, I don’t care _how_ much earlier I have to be at the airport before my flight takes off, so long as I know that airline and airport personnel are using that time to properly ensure that no one gets on those planes who doesn’t belong or who has a weapon on them or in their luggage. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/28 "2001-09-15T16:11:05Z")
I am an Aerial Photography Lab Tech. My photo lab is less than 100 feet from the tower of a large airport. the area is surrounded with concrete that wasn’t there 7 days ago. Roadblocks are all around. There are armed soldiers & State Police guarding this area at all times. All we used to have were bumbling Airport police, who got assigned to the airport because they were screw-ups on the Metro beat. Those guys had the reputation of being lazy bums who couldn’t catch a cold. Things sure have changed. I **gotta** get transferred. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/29 "2001-09-16T00:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Absolutely untrue. Have you not been reading or listening to the news? The terrorists were trained pilots. They took control of the planes, themselves, and they flew those planes into those buildings. And they surely had control long before the final seconds. Um yes, I was refering to the _terrorist pilots_. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/30 "2001-09-16T05:26:01Z")
If I go to a NYC danceclub my wife has her purse searched and HAIRSPRAY will be confiscated. Meanwhile I’ll be patted down for weapons. (women tend to dress in such a manor that a pat down is unnecessary) So why am I more secure at a dance club then on a flight? Would you put up with every carry bag searched and pat down/empty your pockets type searches? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/31 "2001-09-16T06:30:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zebra \* > \*\*Would you put up with every carry bag searched and pat down/empty your pockets type searches? \*\* Yup. 'Cause I’ve got nothing to hide. And the loser who does, gets caught before he gets on the plane! Bring it on. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/32 "2001-09-16T06:36:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slackergirl \* > \*\*I posted this link in another thread. It’s a Slate piece about the changing nature of terrorism, and why those people probably did nothing: > > [http://slate.msn.com/framegame/entries/01-09-13\_115402.asp](http://slate.msn.com/framegame/entries/01-09-13_115402.asp) \*\* The pilots did nothing for the same reason. Because hijackings have always been “take us” incidents, it has been airline policy that hijackers should not be attacked. This will now also change. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/33 "2001-09-16T06:47:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Omniscient \* > Wish I had a cite or could recall more specific details such as names or flight numbers, but I have no doubt it occured. [http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0300/18/news.shtml](http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0300/18/news.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/34 "2001-09-16T22:35:23Z")
This morning at Houston Intercontinental Airport three people whose names appeared on the alert list because of possible ties to Osama Bin Ladin were taken into custody, two at United Airlines and one at USAirways. I haven’t a link to post as proof. My husband was eyewitness to one and notified of the others by his counterpart from the other airline. I for one am glad for the increased airport security, most especially if it prevents escape or additional terrorist acts. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261/35 "2001-09-17T03:04:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > [Here’s an article](http://www.securityworld.com/library/travelrec/airportsecurity.html) Thanks for digging that out, darlin’. Sobering reading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-this-talk-of-increased-airport-security/81261.md?page=1)