# All those Illegitimate Breeding Machines **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199 "2003-09-22T23:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/1 "2003-09-22T23:12:57Z")
The topic of this thread is illegitimate breeding machines, and the background for the discussion (pitting) is **Daisy Cutter’s** post in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212673) in GD: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Daisy Cutter_ > > So, the solution ? Stop having so many babies. Poor people do not have the right to keep churning out children, as if they were part of a mass assembly line. > > And I hold everybody to the same standard, not just Palestinians. The same would apply to certain welfare mothers (illegitimate breeding machines), here in the USA, and also to other poor people across the globe. > > The last thing I could imagine right now is even having a single child myself, as it would be stretching my finances a bit. I dont see how unemployed, poor as dirt people think they have the right to breed like rabbits. Are they not accountable for their actions. Does being poor give them the right to behave in a irresponsible, stupid manner ? I’m not taking on **Daisy Cutter** , I’m just wondering: - aren’t poor people allowed to fuck? - aren’t poor people allowed to have accidents when they fuck? - should the government subsidize condoms for poor people, or maybe even (gasp) pay for abortions? Just asking because I’m a bit low on cash myself these days. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/2 "2003-09-22T23:20:43Z")
well, poor people in the US are rich compared to most people in the world, so by Daisy Cutter’s logic they should be able to drown her in poor babies (with their dark skin tones) ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/3 "2003-09-22T23:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*(with their dark skin tones) \*\* Has **Daisy Cutter** made any statements which justify this apparent accusation of racism? (I’m just asking, I’ve only read a few of her posts) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/4 "2003-09-22T23:53:59Z")
That is what i got out of it. i know several people who use “welfare mothers” as code for talking about black people without saying black people. The tone of her post reminded me of that. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/5 "2003-09-22T23:57:50Z")
I should add that i probably shouldn’t have jumped to that conclusion and i apologize to **Daisy Cuytter** ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/6 "2003-09-23T00:10:14Z")
Well, I need some support here guys. As I said, I’m low on cash, but this hot chick has moved in next door and I’m all ready for her (I have even flushed). But now I fear Daisy Cutter has thrown off my mojo. How can I perform when I’m thinking about babies? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/7 "2003-09-23T01:39:42Z")
Close your eyes and think of England? ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/8 "2003-09-23T02:00:08Z")
[sarcasm]I, for one, believe that poor people have a _duty_ to breed. We’ll need uneducated low-wage workers in 20 years. They’ll spend a large percentage of their income on basic goods like food, alcohol, cigarettes and gasoline. Being poor and uneducated, they won’t take money out of the economy to waste on savings and investments.[/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/9 "2003-09-23T02:03:54Z")
What I want to know is what happens if you were comfortable when you bred but then your life turns to shit and you can’t support your kids? Do you have to turn them over to people who manage money better? Or can you only breed if you know that everything’s going to go smoothly for the rest of your life? ---
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/10 "2003-09-23T02:07:09Z")
Darn, you beat me to that Queen Victoria reference! I’m not taking on **Daisy Cutter** either, but she should read about Irish tenement life. The mothers didn’t know a thing about childbearing, and they were often married young. (at about 19 or so? maybe even younger) Imagine a family where the father is often unemployed, the mother has to go out every day and make ends meet somehow through the poverty, and there are six to 24 children in a family… all crammed into one tiny room. Those people were definitely poor, but they weren’t “illegitimate breeding machines.” (whatever your definition of one is) That’s all I have to say about this. F\_X ---
**Author:** ![Extraneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@Extraneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Extraneous)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/11 "2003-09-23T02:14:25Z")
Bringing back debtor’s prisons (segregated by sex, of course) would be a start. Just expand the concept to “you stay in jail until you have paid your debts AND have $250,000 in the bank” - now _that_ would slow down them baby machines (and make the streets so much prettier!). But yes, contraception and abortion should be provided to anyone wishing them (and no, I don’t want to open yet another “my god is better than your god” discussion - this is simply about practicality) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/12 "2003-09-23T03:00:08Z")
Isn’t Daisy Cutter a “he”? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/13 "2003-09-23T03:13:52Z")
Well, shit. I’m a ‘welfare mom’, but all my kids were born while I was married. Does that make me a _legitimate_ breeding machine? 😃 What about if they _turn out_ to be little bastards even though, technically speaking, they’re not. Would I then turn from a legitimate to an ILLEGITIMATE breeder? 😃 Wouldn’t an _illegitimate_ breeder be one who’s own parents had never married, regardless of _their_ marital status at the time of pushing-out sprogs? So, as you can see class, the term ‘illegitimate’ is really not so easy to define. Now, for your next weeks homework, I want an analysis of what counts as fiscal ‘welfare’ in modern industrial societies. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/14 "2003-09-23T03:18:34Z")
That’s why all people should register with the proper authorities. Once we get rid of the illegitimate breeding machines and have only legitimate properly documented breeding machines, the sky will be bluer, we’ll cure cancer, our elected officials will stop lying to us, they’ll stop making soylent green from people. Man, things would be different if I were in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/15 "2003-09-23T03:26:16Z")
Well, I’m sure if I were a bit more swift, I bet I could some up with a modest proposal as to what to do with excess poor babies. I imagine I could come up with some ideas as to how to reduce hunger as well. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/16 "2003-09-23T03:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\*Well, I’m sure if I were a bit more swift, I bet I could some up with a modest proposal as to what to do with excess poor babies. I imagine I could come up with some ideas as to how to reduce hunger as well. \*\* Hmmm. So do you reckon a gentle saute with onions, mushrooms and garlic, or more the ‘flame grill’ with a bit of hot sauce for the marinade? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/17 "2003-09-23T03:36:37Z")
Well not to do with **DC** ’s posts, but there are some people that would be better off if they kept their legs shut a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![AfterAugust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AfterAugust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AfterAugust)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/18 "2003-09-23T03:37:28Z")
Sorry, if I’m mistaken…but there is this orginization called Planned Parenthood. You can get birth control at a reasonable price, or even for free if you are very low on money and don’t have insurance. Every city has one, I believe. They also provide free condoms. So, what I am trying to say, is that practically everyone in America has access to some kind of birth control, and I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who end up with babies because they didn’t protect themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Nvme77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Nvme77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nvme77)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/19 "2003-09-23T03:42:39Z")
I have heard, not sure if its true so I’m probably just spreading rumours, that in the late '60s early '70s Native American women were sterilized against their wishes. Who is to decide which people get to be fruitful and multiply and which don’t? And once that is decided, do we tell them when the children will be born and which gender they should get to keep? ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/20 "2003-09-23T04:49:24Z")
The response… No offense or racist remarks here, but maybe (just maybe) the reason that some people draw a parallel from welfare receiving mothers to black females is the fact that comparedly, the number of mothers on welfare who are black is signifigantly higher (by percentage) than the number of welfare mothers who are not black. PART 1: In the decade of 1990-2000, 13% of Americans were on government assistance in one form or another, for a term of two years or more. That means of the USA’s 281.42 million, 36.58 million were on welfare (All types.) Now, lets remove the group least likely to breed (the elderly.) The elderly (those over 65 yoa) comprised 12.4% of the US, (at 35.00 million.) Of that 35.00 million, 12.20 million (4.3% of the entire National population) were on welfare for more than 2 years. Now, this includes Social Security as well as AFDC. Subtract these out and you’ve got 24.38 million people on welfare. Of these 24.38 million people, 9.26 million are white (38.8%), 9.06 million are black (37.2%) and the rest are ‘other’ (24%, or 5.85 million.) There are 34.70 million blacks living in the US (or 12.3% of the total population.) Of that 34.70 million blacks, 9.06 million are on welfare (or 26.11% of blacks live on non-Social Security welfare.) There are 211.51 million whites in the USA (75.15% of the total population. Of that 211.51 million, 9.26 million are on welfare (or 4.37% of whites live on non-Social Security welfare.) Please compare that 26.11% of blacks on welfare to 4.37% of whites. By percentages, blacks are more likely to go on welfare, and that includes children. Part 2: Your title says “All those Illegitimate Breeding Machines,” indicating that illegitimacy is an issue here, yet you fail to address it in your op. I’m assuming you’re tying this in to Daisy Cutter’s comments which have been seen as ‘racist.’ So lets do this by race, shall we? From 1990 to 2000, 25.9 million kids were born in the USA. [Yay, babies are so special, aren’t they?] 11.8 million were white. 4.7 million were black. The rest were ‘other’ (asians, hispanics, indians, Asian indians, arabs, etc.) Statistically, 23% of white kids are born out of wedlock and are illegitimate (2.74 million newborns from 1990-2000.) 71% of black kids are born out of wedlock and are illegitimate (3.34 million newborns from 1990-2000.) For general comparison, black kids are nearly three times as likely not to have a daddy as white kids. Now, to tie in those stats to the welfare stats. Statistically, 26.11% of blacks are on welfare (again, 9.06 million.) Of those, 55.3% were unwed parents and their children (5.01 million.) 4.37% of whites live on welfare (9.26 million.) Of those, 40.2% are undwed parents and there children (3.72 million.) So, of the ENTIRE non-social security welfare pie, 35.81% of it goes to unwed parents and their bastard children, and of THAT 57.38% goes to unwed blacks and their bastard kids, compared to 42.61% going to unwed whites and their bastard kids. Just chew on that when you question perception. Sometimes the general “Well, it seems like it” is closer to the truth than you might want to admit. Part 3: To answer Alien’s questions: 1: Are poor people allowed to fuck? Well, yea. Anyone over their appropriate ages of consent are allowed to fuck. Its a privlidge which is being held in high regards these days (such court rulings as Lawrence v. Texas show this.) Yea, go and fuck. 2: Aren’t poor people allowed to have accidents when they fuck? Well, depends on what you mean by ‘accident.’ A car wreck would be neglegent assault if you caused it by fucking :D. All kidding aside, I’m assuming you mean get pregnant. Its not a quesiton of being allowed to (you are allowed to) so much as it being a question of whether it is sensable to or morally correct to (not going with the Christian ethos, more of a social ethos. Is it morally correct to get your ass on welfare because you’ve got a baby you can’t support, even though you knew when you created the baby, eg, got laid, that you would be unable to support it?) You are allowed to get pregnant, but you’re socially WRONG for doing so if you then go and get welfare. 3: Should the government subsidize condoms for poor people, or maybe even (gasp) pay for abortions? UGHGODDDDD!..no. The whole condom thingy has fallen on deaf ears in my town (you can go to the Department of Health and Enviromental Control and get rolls of 'em…but unplanned pregnancies still arise.) As far as the welfare abortion bit, what fucking planet are you living on? In the US, teenage pregnancies have declined some 29% across the board. This coencides with a 1.2% decrease in abortions. The only causial factor that has been directly attributed to this is the concurrent reduction in welfare for poor and unwed mothers. They aren’t getting money, so they stop having babies. I could see the condom thing, but the abortion thing would merely increase the number of abortions, not add nor detract from the welfare roles. (Cites: 1:US Census for 1990-2000. 2:Centers for Disease Control Studies on Youth Behavior and Risk in Regards to Welfare and Illegitimacy. 3:Marital Status and Fertility in the United States: Welfare and Labor Market Effects by T. P. Schultz of Yale Univ. 4: AFDC Statistics (provided by the Office Of Family Assistance.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199.md?page=2)