# All those Illegitimate Breeding Machines **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199 "2003-09-22T23:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/21 "2003-09-23T13:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*Close your eyes and think of England? \*\* Yes, it’s working, working working, worked 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/22 "2003-09-23T14:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > PART 1: > In the decade of 1990-2000, 13% of Americans were on government assistance in one form or another, for a term of two years or more. That means of the USA’s 281.42 million, 36.58 million … **fushj00mang** , I’m impressed by your numbers (and now my head hurts too). Your data could be the foundation for a viable discussion about the birth rate of blacks/whites/others and welfare. But couldn’t be that some are simply more eager to have children, e.g. “I can’t wait for a house with a garden and a station wagon, I need babies now”? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > Part 2: > Your title says “All those Illegitimate Breeding Machines,” indicating that illegitimacy is an issue here, yet you fail to address it in your op. I’m assuming you’re tying this in to Daisy Cutter’s comments which have been seen as ‘racist.’ Well, I’m from Scandinavia, the words “extremely pale” is printed on my forehead, and the sublety of the English language continues to escape me. I had no idea “welfare mothers” were slang for “black umarried females with children”. On the other hand, where I live we have an expression called “Lipp-mothers” which means hot chicks who frequent a certain bar (Lipp) to pick up very rich guys to get pregnant and live on child support. Yes, I failed to address the issue of illegitimacy. Personally I don’t think it’s anything illegal about breeding, but according to _some_ (e.g. Daisy Cutter) it is. It reminded me of the unpleasantness of dating a girl who were “allergic” to the pill and didn’t like condoms. The issue of legitimacy aside, sex is definitely better when there are no consequences. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > Part 3: > 3: Should the government subsidize condoms for poor people, or maybe even (gasp) pay for abortions? UGHGODDDDD!..no. The whole condom thingy has fallen on deaf ears in my town (you can go to the Department of Health and Enviromental Control and get rolls of 'em…but unplanned pregnancies still arise.) As far as the welfare abortion bit, what fucking planet are you living on? On a second thought, over here (same planet, different world) the government is actually paying for abortions. They cost 20 bucks or so. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/23 "2003-09-23T14:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alien \* > \*\* But now I fear Daisy Cutter has thrown off my mojo. How can I perform when I’m thinking about babies? \*\* What on EARTH is your mojo doing on _her_ ?? ---
**Author:** ![byter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@byter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/byter)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/24 "2003-09-23T17:36:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alien \* > \*\* I had no idea “welfare mothers” were slang for “black umarried females with children”. \*\* It isn’t, please don’t assume that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/25 "2003-09-23T18:21:06Z")
“Welfare Mothers” isn’t slang for “black unmarried females with children” but it is DEFINITELY a “code phrase” used by some Republicans and other racists to get across the IDEA of “black unmarried females with children” without actually having to say the words that would definitively tag them as racist. It’s a way of appealing to racists, with a wink, without acknowledging openly that that is what they are doing. Since the Republican southern strategy definitely involved covert appeals to racists and racism, it’s used rather commonly. I am of the opinion that it CAN be used unknowingly to simply mean “unmarried females with children” with no reference to race, within the context of a discussion like this one, but one should be aware of its existence as a racist code phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Tortuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Tortuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tortuga)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/26 "2003-09-23T21:48:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flamsterette\_X \* > \*\* > Imagine a family where the father is often unemployed, the mother has to go out every day and make ends meet somehow through the poverty, and there are six to 24 children in a family… all crammed into one tiny room. > \*\* [Monty Python’s Michael Palin] “I’ve got no option but to sell you _all_ for scientific experiments.” [Monty Python’s “Meaning of Life”] In some places, one gets extra welfare allowance for each child, and in others, guaranteed housing…there are some who abuse the system, as ever. Cynically yours, Tortuga ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/27 "2003-09-24T00:22:15Z")
My answer to all three questions in the OP is yes. Personally, I don’t understand the much-touted “right to reproduce”. I’m not talking about eugenics or forced sterilization or anything, but I believe your right to pass on genes should stop before it intersects someone else’s right not to pay for your kids, or your potential kid’s right to have a decent upbringing. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/28 "2003-09-24T01:17:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > The response… > No offense or racist remarks here, but maybe (just maybe) the reason that some people draw a parallel from welfare receiving mothers to black females is the fact that comparedly, the number of mothers on welfare who are black is signifigantly higher (by percentage) than the number of welfare mothers who are not black. > > PART 1: > In the decade of 1990-2000, 13% of Americans were on government assistance in one form or another, for a term of two years or more. That means of the USA’s 281.42 million, 36.58 million were on welfare (All types.) Now, lets remove the group least likely to breed (the elderly.) The elderly (those over 65 yoa) comprised 12.4% of the US, (at 35.00 million.) Of that 35.00 million, 12.20 million (4.3% of the entire National population) were on welfare for more than 2 years. Now, this includes Social Security as well as AFDC. Subtract these out and you’ve got 24.38 million people on welfare. > > Of these 24.38 million people, 9.26 million are white (38.8%), 9.06 million are black (37.2%) and the rest are ‘other’ (24%, or 5.85 million.) There are 34.70 million blacks living in the US (or 12.3% of the total population.) Of that 34.70 million blacks, 9.06 million are on welfare (or 26.11% of blacks live on non-Social Security welfare.) There are 211.51 million whites in the USA (75.15% of the total population. Of that 211.51 million, 9.26 million are on welfare (or 4.37% of whites live on non-Social Security welfare.) > > Please compare that 26.11% of blacks on welfare to 4.37% of whites. By percentages, blacks are more likely to go on welfare, and that includes children. > > Part 2: > > Your title says “All those Illegitimate Breeding Machines,” indicating that illegitimacy is an issue here, yet you fail to address it in your op. I’m assuming you’re tying this in to Daisy Cutter’s comments which have been seen as ‘racist.’ So lets do this by race, shall we? From 1990 to 2000, 25.9 million kids were born in the USA. [Yay, babies are so special, aren’t they?] 11.8 million were white. 4.7 million were black. The rest were ‘other’ (asians, hispanics, indians, Asian indians, arabs, etc.) Statistically, 23% of white kids are born out of wedlock and are illegitimate (2.74 million newborns from 1990-2000.) 71% of black kids are born out of wedlock and are illegitimate (3.34 million newborns from 1990-2000.) For general comparison, black kids are nearly three times as likely not to have a daddy as white kids. > > Now, to tie in those stats to the welfare stats. Statistically, 26.11% of blacks are on welfare (again, 9.06 million.) Of those, 55.3% were unwed parents and their children (5.01 million.) 4.37% of whites live on welfare (9.26 million.) Of those, 40.2% are undwed parents and there children (3.72 million.) > > So, of the ENTIRE non-social security welfare pie, 35.81% of it goes to unwed parents and their bastard children, and of THAT 57.38% goes to unwed blacks and their bastard kids, compared to 42.61% going to unwed whites and their bastard kids. Just chew on that when you question perception. Sometimes the general “Well, it seems like it” is closer to the truth than you might want to admit. Actually, I want to backtrack here for a second. **fushj00mang** , if you’re still with us, as I said your numbers look impressing. It appears that if _race_ is the only criteria, then blacks are more likely then withes to live on non-Social Security welfare, by 26.11% to 4.37%. Furthermore, you demonstrated that of the entire welfare pie, 35.81% goes to unwed parents and their children, and of THAT (now 100%) 57.38% goes to blacks, compared to 42.61% going to whites. First of all, is it not a small error in your last numbers? You said: 57% of unwed black parents on welfare, compared to 43% to unwed whites. What happened to “Others” (asians, hispanics, etc)? By second look it seems to me that the number for whites should be even lower. However, what I really wanted to ask you is how do the numbers look if you go beyond race. I bet people don’t go on welfare because of the color of their skin, they go on welfare because they are poor. Why are they poor? Probably because they don’t have a job or a wealthy family. Why don’t they have a job? If they are not lazy, it should be because they have less education than people who are not on welfare. My question is, do you know how the numbers would like like if you only compare people _within the same education level_, for instance only people that have completed junior high, or high school? I know there probably isn’t data available that compares unwed parents by race with their education level, but there must be some data as to the education level amongst Americans in general broken down by race somewhere which could give us a picture? ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/29 "2003-09-24T04:08:13Z")
You caught me! > [@](#): > > First of all, is it not a small error in your last numbers? You said: 57% of unwed black parents on welfare, compared to 43% to unwed whites. What happened to “Others” (asians, hispanics, etc)? By second look it seems to me that the number for whites should be even lower. D’oh! I don’t trust statistics, by nature, so I just grabbed the raw figures and did my own number crunching. You’re right, after all, and by second look, both sets of numbers should be lower. You’re quite right about compairing education level and poverty, and thus the added necessity of welfare for those who have a child they cannot support. I fell into the trap that snares many professional statisticians (I am not one, being a member of the armed forces, go Air Force!) in using only one causial factor in indicating it. That being said, the stats encompass all individuals and all education levels. If you’ll be so kind as to give me another day, I’ll see if I can do the math and connect education level to that, irregardless of race. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/30 "2003-09-24T04:17:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*My answer to all three questions in the OP is yes. > > Personally, I don’t understand the much-touted “right to reproduce”. I’m not talking about eugenics or forced sterilization or anything, but I believe your right to pass on genes should stop before it intersects someone else’s right not to pay for your kids, or your potential kid’s right to have a decent upbringing. \*\* Fuck, it must be a full moon or something. First I find myself agreeing with **Blowero** and now with you. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/31 "2003-09-24T10:00:59Z")
Just for the record, I am a he, and not a she, something I have previously mentioned in at least one other post. I can understand how the name might be slightly deceptive to some, but I have always imagined bombs as being genderless. Also, no race/color associations are intended as I have seen _illegitimate breeding machines_, which come in all shapes, sizes and colors. A white welfare mother with a truckload of children is just as deplorable as a black welfare mother schlepping around a horde of children. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/32 "2003-09-24T10:21:53Z")
Oh, so now you’re saying the black woman just schleps, but the white woman can afford a truck!?! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/33 "2003-09-24T10:47:52Z")
Look, let’s face it, the ‘welfare mum’ is the ‘nigger’ of the 21st Century. We all need someone to pile our woes upon, and seeing as ‘nigger’ is so unPC and actually illegal, let’s put all of our shit upon those lousy, rotten single mothers who rip off the system, AT THE HONEST TAXPAYERS EXPENSE. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/34 "2003-09-24T12:08:41Z")
Having children in this day and age is a choice. You can choose how many children you want (excepting infertility issues, of course) and choose when you wish to start having them (roughly, biology can be tricky at times). With that said, I think a person is highly irresponsible to bring a child into the world that they can’t provide for emotionally and financially. Life circumstances can change, thousand of things can happen, etc, etc, etc, but choosing to have kids when you can’t afford them is in my opinion wrong, irresponsible, selfish and a disservice to your child. Wait until you’re emotionally _and_ financially ready for your child’s sake. \*\*\*\* Please note, I’m talking about the choice to have them when you aren’t ready, not those who fall on difficult times when the children are half-grown and need assistance. I’m also not talking about legislating responsible behaviour.\*\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/35 "2003-09-24T12:42:21Z")
This is not a new argument. Here’s a line from George Bernard Shaw’s “Pygmalion” which served as the basis for “My Fair Lady”: Doolittle: … But the undeserving poor eats just as much as the deserving poor, and they drinks … a LOT more. In short, does the child of an undeserving welfare mother deserve to eat less than the child of a deserving welfare mother? ---
**Author:** ![misstee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@misstee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misstee)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/36 "2003-09-24T13:42:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > For general comparison, black kids are nearly three times as likely not to have a daddy as white kids. It takes two to make a baby no matter what color you are. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/37 "2003-09-24T17:43:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Personally, I don’t understand the much-touted “right to reproduce”. I’m not talking about eugenics or forced sterilization or anything, but I believe your right to pass on genes should stop before it intersects someone else’s right not to pay for your kids, or your potential kid’s right to have a decent upbringing. For some (well, for me), it’s less a right to reproduce as it is utter horror at any regulatory agency deciding who can do what with their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/38 "2003-09-24T19:08:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AfterAugust \* > \*\*Sorry, if I’m mistaken…but there is this orginization called Planned Parenthood. You can get birth control at a reasonable price, or even for free if you are very low on money and don’t have insurance. Every city has one, I believe. > > They also provide free condoms. > > So, what I am trying to say, is that practically everyone in America has access to some kind of birth control, and I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who end up with babies because they didn’t protect themselves. \*\* Because, you know, of course there aren’t people who live in _rural_ areas who get pregnant by accident. And condoms are foolproof, just like all the other kinds of birth control. And people who follow the Pope have lots of contraceptive options. And everyone who matters in this debate lives in America. And everyone in the world is well-educated enough to understand how and why to use birth control. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/39 "2003-09-24T19:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Goo \* > **Having children in this day and age is a choice. You can choose how many children you want (excepting infertility issues, of course) and choose when you wish to start having them (roughly, biology can be tricky at times).** Unless you follow a belief system that takes that choice away from you, like [Islam](http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/005000.php) or [Catholicism](http://www.geocities.com/seapadre_1999/birthcontrol-catholic.html). Or even are in a culture that does not allow women to decide whether or not they want children. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199/40 "2003-09-24T19:28:25Z")
Evil you are such a fucking dipshit that it simply amazes me. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > “Welfare Mothers” isn’t slang for “black unmarried females with children” but it is DEFINITELY a “code phrase” used by some **Republicans and other racists** to get across the IDEA of “black unmarried females with children” without actually having to say the words that would definitively tag them as racist. You mean there are other racists out there _besides_ the republicans! _gasp_ Nice brush you got there. It can paint half the US voters with a single stroke! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-those-illegitimate-breeding-machines/203199.md?page=3)