# All you fuckers whining about gas prices **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283 "2005-08-16T15:32:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/61 "2005-08-16T19:49:12Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > So reading through all the posts, how about an \*\*additional Gas Tax for all non commercial/farm vehicles that are rated less than 20 mpg and a tax break for all rated over 40 mpg. \*\* > This could encourage fuel efficiency and gather some extra tax dollars at first. > > I’m sure those Hummer drivers aren’t going to be deterred by and extra 20 cents per gallon and on purchasing a car, if someone was choosing between a car that got 34 or one that got 40, they might pick the 40 mpg which would cause car companies to put more on the road. I would agree with this and add I would allow cargo rigs to use offroad diesel to try to offset some of the cost that will soon be passed on to the consumer. And it could only be applied to 2000+ models as some people with poor gas milage vehicles simply cannot afford a new car. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/62 "2005-08-16T19:56:07Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Indeed. Electricity – a commodity we all need – produced from fossil fuels (oil and natural gas) is already becoming more expensive and it’s only going to get worse. Electricity generation , uses more coal then anything else. [Graph](http://www.electricityforum.com/images/elecgen_graph1.gif) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/63 "2005-08-16T19:58:09Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > I would agree with this and add I would allow cargo rigs to use offroad diesel to try to offset some of the cost that will soon be passed on to the consumer. > > And it could only be applied to 2000+ models as some people with poor gas milage vehicles simply cannot afford a new car. I like both of your additions. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/64 "2005-08-16T19:58:42Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > How far into the future are we projecting, here? I’d say the market for oil is becoming increasingly inelastic as demand skyrockets, with barely any movement on the part of industrialized nations to economize nearly enough to keep up with rising costs, so why should profits suffer for the forseable future? What do you mean, the market is becoming increasingly inelastic? Demand for oil is traditionally price inelastic. The high price of oil is imposing a demonstrable drag on the economy. Wal-Mart posted its narrowest profits in four years today, visibly shaking the market. Meanwhile inflation jumped .5% in July, mostly driven by oil. Ironically, if people could stand to part with their appetite for cheap Chinese goods, the price of oil would fall. As would the world economy. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/65 "2005-08-16T20:02:05Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Please don’t discourage them. Now that I’m getting close to 50MPG, and saving more money than I ever imagined I would when I ordered my Prius, I really enjoy the experience of gloating over the guy with the Suburban spending 80 bucks a week on gas. I really, really enjoy it. So let 'em bitch, please. I was waiting for a bus one morning when a Hummer pulled up to a nearby bank. The driver was probably there to get a loan so he could pay for a fill up. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/66 "2005-08-16T20:04:08Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > Yes, I know that Canada’s/Belgium’s/England’s gas prices are twice as high as ours. And I could care less since they have reliable mass transit in those places. You can get from any point A to any point B via trolley, subway, or bus. But our wise leaders saw fit to spend our tax dollars on building more roadway sprawl than a good mass transit system. > > Not everyone in the US is the same Not everyone outside the US is the same. I’m about to start a new job involving driving between a dozen different rural schools each week (although thankfully I get paid an allowance for this). And did you really just suggest that you can get anywhere in Canada by public transport?! (BTW, Britain’s petrol prices are twice as high as Canada’s) ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/67 "2005-08-16T20:05:42Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I do like to sit back in my fuel efficient econo box box and laugh at people who bought large SUV’s to commute in. > How’s that 11 MPG working for you? > Do you really need such a large vehicle for 1 person? > So what does your annual Gas bill work out to at $2.53 per Gallon for regular? G’head and chuckle, I’ll still stop and pull you out of the ditch when your econo box slides off the road this coming winter. 😉 And it’s working out just fine, although my Excessive gets about 16 around town. Considering my daily commute is a whopping 3 miles and my sitter is on the way, I drive about 10,000 miles yearly. If it wasn’t for trip mileage, I’d have none! That puts me at about $1,500 annually I wager, and I’m a’ight with that. Do I _need_ an SUV? Well, there’s more than 1 person in it daily, but no, I don’t need it. I need safe and reliable transportation and I chose the one I wanted, just like you did. Funny, my 10 year old 4wd mini-pickup averaged about 18 city, as does a Mustang, a Viper or a host of other sports cars. Don’t hear too many complaints about those though. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/68 "2005-08-16T20:13:25Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > What do you mean, the market is becoming increasingly inelastic? Well, during the 70s oil crises, there was actually some effort to economize, with the average automobile and home becoming much more efficient in terms of petroleum production. This did have an impact on demand. Oil consumption dropped 5% from 1973-75, and dropped another 10% from 1978-83. [Cite](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6249750/). So it hasn’t been a stringently inelastic market in the past, but is approaching a high degree of inelasticity now as other parts of the world, especially East Asia, become increasingly industrialized. Your comment about cheap Chinese (and Indian, I might add) supplies and services is right on target in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/69 "2005-08-16T20:15:05Z")
I should add it wasn’t just cars and homes that become more efficient. The economy as a whole did, and still is becoming more efficient, in terms of what it gets out of a gallon of crude. But it doesn’t matter anymore; prices will continue to go up for some time until the cost of energy severly stifles economic growth. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/70 "2005-08-16T20:16:31Z")
> [@Queen Tonya](#): > > G’head and chuckle, I’ll still stop and pull you out of the ditch when your econo box slides off the road this coming winter. 😉 > > And it’s working out just fine, although my Excessive gets about 16 around town. Considering my daily commute is a whopping 3 miles and my sitter is on the way, I drive about 10,000 miles yearly. If it wasn’t for trip mileage, I’d have none! That puts me at about $1,500 annually I wager, and I’m a’ight with that. > > Do I _need_ an SUV? Well, there’s more than 1 person in it daily, but no, I don’t need it. I need safe and reliable transportation and I chose the one I wanted, just like you did. > > Funny, my 10 year old 4wd mini-pickup averaged about 18 city, as does a Mustang, a Viper or a host of other sports cars. Don’t hear too many complaints about those though. Chuckle chuckle chuckle 😃 ---------------------------- 😉 I live in the commuter state, yep Jersey averages the longest commutes in mileage and time in the nation. There are many people running over 20K per year in mileage and getting less than your mileage and by themselves. So I wasn’t really laughing at you. I don’t think you qualify. BtW: Most cars in ditches on the GSP (Garden State Parkway) are SUV’s. Apparently many drivers think 4 wheeled drive = drive in snow at speed and then off they go into the ditches or guard rails or bushes. Also, all the vehicles you listed would be eligible for my fuel tax from above. [See post 56](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6479572&postcount=56) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/71 "2005-08-16T20:26:07Z")
> [@Queen Tonya](#): > > G’head and chuckle, I’ll still stop and pull you out of the ditch when your econo box slides off the road this coming winter. 😉 \ Too bad so many people buy SUVs that can barely handle the weight of four adults, never mind pulling anybody else out of the ditch. And that unfortunate sense of invulnerability seems to lend itself to more SUVs in the ditches around here than anything else come winter. My front-wheel drive Sundance has no problem handling winter roads, but I don’t expect it to drive like I was on bare pavement, like a lot of larger vehicle drivers seem to. > [@](#): > > \Do I _need_ an SUV? Well, there’s more than 1 person in it daily, but no, I don’t need it. I need safe and reliable transportation and I chose the one I wanted, just like you did. \ SUVs are nowhere near as safe as people driving them think they are. ---
**Author:** ![akira5822](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@akira5822](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akira5822)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/72 "2005-08-16T20:31:20Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > So reading through all the posts, how about an \*\*additional Gas Tax for all non commercial/farm vehicles that are rated less than 20 mpg and a tax break for all rated over 40 mpg. \*\* > This could encourage fuel efficiency and gather some extra tax dollars at first. > > I’m sure those Hummer drivers aren’t going to be deterred by and extra 20 cents per gallon and on purchasing a car, if someone was choosing between a car that got 34 or one that got 40, they might pick the 40 mpg which would cause car companies to put more on the road. Sounds good, although what about working class stiffs, i just bought a scion XB,It gets 32 mpg. To buy a car for the extra 8 would have cost $7000 to $10000 more. Hooray!!! another tax break for the rich (ok… a mild exagaration but still…) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/73 "2005-08-16T20:34:19Z")
> [@akira5822](#): > > Sounds good, although what about working class stiffs, i just bought a scion XB,It gets 32 mpg. To buy a car for the extra 8 would have cost $7000 to $10000 more. > Hooray!!! another tax break for the rich (ok… a mild exagaration but still…) It should encourage car companies to increase MPG and at least you won’t get hit for extra. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/74 "2005-08-16T20:35:51Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > It should encourage car companies to increase MPG and at least you won’t get hit for extra. BtW by car doesn’t qualify either. But my next car would if without question if this new tax was put into effect. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/75 "2005-08-16T20:48:27Z")
My suggestions to lower the cost of oil or at least make it cheaper to get around. Mandatory car pools. Companies encouraged to contact employee’s that live in the same area, and try to schedule them the same times if possible. As **jrfranchi** said taxing the low MPG vehicle users. An active ad campaign to combine multiple shopping trips into one, car pooling, public transportation (Think War On Drugs except useful) Buy American to cool China’s growth, and increasing taste for oil. Lower our dependence on oil, by encouraging hybreds and such with larger tax breaks for the buyer, take back the fucking tax breaks for the oil companies and put it to use to encourage fuel effiecient vehicles. Make windmills and other renewable energy sources a top priority. Find a way to stop traffic jams, invest in new roads. Create huge parking lot’s around every large city, with a shuttle service, no private transportation allowed. Create a “X” prize with the help of government and sponsors for the automobile company that is successful in making a car get 250 MPG commercially available. Whoever wins gets every government car contract for the next 20 years. Or there can always be fuel rations, that will make people think about alternative modes of transportation. You get X gallons a week, make it work. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/76 "2005-08-16T21:19:18Z")
> [@](#): > > **Barbarian** said: > And in terms of actual dollars taking inflation into account, it’s still lower than in the 70s. Wouldn’t it be nice if my salary had taken that inflation into account? I don’t get a salary that’s been inflated at the same rate as everything else, so my dollars today buy less. > [@](#): > > Did you not realize when you bought your house a 30 minute 45 minute 90 minute commute away from your workplace that driving might eventually become expensive? I live where I live because this is where I could afford to make the payment that keeps the roof over top my head. The places that are close to work are up to _three times_ more expensive to rent than the place I’m living now, and I’m in absolutely no position to buy a house. So fuck you. > [@](#): > > If you don’t take higher gasoline prices into account when planning your life you’re a moron of the highest order who deserves to go bankrupt. I put affordable shelter and a commute I could afford pretty high on my list. Now that gas prices are nearly double what they were four years ago, and my salary certainly isn’t double what it was four years ago, I think I have something to bitch about. Expect them to increase? Of course. Expect them to double in four years? Not exactly. > [@](#): > > Oh wait, that’ll happen when you don’t get the raise you’re expecting, the housing bubble bursts, and the bank starts insisting you actually pay some of the principal on your interest-only mortgage… I don’t expect raises, because they don’t fucking happen where I work. I bust my ass looking for a new job. Maybe if I can double my salary I can go live closer to my job and decrease my standard of living again so that I can make you happy. Or maybe not, because you’re an asshole. > [@](#): > > **LostGoals** said: > Mandatory car pools. Companies encouraged to contact employee’s that live in the same area, and try to schedule them the same times if possible. Yeah, people just love intrusions onto their freedom of movement. > [@](#): > > Or there can always be fuel rations, that will make people think about alternative modes of transportation. > You get X gallons a week, make it work. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/77 "2005-08-16T21:25:36Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Yeah, people just love intrusions onto their freedom of movement. Freedom of movement? I didn’t once put “You had to sit at home” If you use up your ration you walk/bike/jump on a bus/talk to neighbors to combine shopping trips whatever it takes. You have to have a license to drive so I assume you already realize its a priviledge and not a right. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/78 "2005-08-16T21:29:09Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Now that gas prices are nearly double what they were four years ago, and my salary certainly isn’t double what it was four years ago, I think I have something to bitch about. Expect them to increase? Of course. Expect them to double in four years? Not exactly Unless fuel costs take up 100% of your outgoing costs, I suspect maths isn’t your strong point :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/79 "2005-08-16T21:55:04Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > \Yeah, people just love intrusions onto their freedom of movement. What people love or don’t love isn’t going to be a factor soon. The pessimists put our peak oil production at now; the optimists put it at about 2037. Any way you cut it, most of us participating in this thread are going to experience the demise of cheap oil. I for one hope to be ready for it, but I probably won’t be. In our North American societies, it will affect _everything_. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/80 "2005-08-16T22:28:55Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > So reading through all the posts, how about an \*\*additional Gas Tax for all non commercial/farm vehicles that are rated less than 20 mpg and a tax break for all rated over 40 mpg. \*\* This could encourage fuel efficiency and gather some extra tax dollars at first. > > I’m sure those Hummer drivers aren’t going to be deterred by and extra 20 cents per gallon and on purchasing a car, if someone was choosing between a car that got 34 or one that got 40, they might pick the 40 mpg which would cause car companies to put more on the road. That’s part of a solution, but not all of it. Certainly, a tax to discourage use of gasoline probably should be used in the USA, but applied to all vehicles. It would be too hard to administrate the tax as you have it. Simply add the tax to all fuel and the Hummer gets hit the hardest and the Prius the least. Samll increases in mileage is rewarded, without having to hit the arbitrary 40 mpg mark. Now, more importantly, **how this tax is used** is the other part of the solution. Take all of the money raised by the comsumption tax and use it to provide sensible mass transit. City and intercity bus service, light rail, bike facilites, subways, long distance rail, walking paths. These types of services seem to require some sort of subsidy since it takes a lot of money to build the infrastructure. A gas consumption tax could provide the funds, but you have to be ensure that that is what they are used for (and not used by politicians for other uses). So what does the tax actually buy us? A couple of things. First, with mass transit a reasonable option (because the tax has built it out to be an actual alternative to driving), there will be a small drop in traffic. If traffic was reduced a small amount, say 10%, there will be less gridlock. Is a faster driving time worth and extra 25 or 50 cents per gallon? Maybe. Second, when gas prices do go up, people who are finding it hard to pay for fuel will have a mass transit system that they could actually use. A lot of people drive because they have no choice. I know that taxes are the devil to some people, but if the money raised by the tax is used in the right way, they can be useful. There have been taxes on fuel for as long as I can remember, and as far as I know the bulk of those taxes are used to pay for **more roads**. That’s all good, but the only thing you can do on **more roads** is **drive more**. Using the tax to provide a reasonable alternative is something that this country needs to do now. We have enough roads. We don’t have enough alternatives to driving. > [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > But our wise leaders saw fit to spend our tax dollars on building more roadway sprawl than a good mass transit system. Or, what he said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283.md?page=5)