# All you fuckers whining about gas prices **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283 "2005-08-16T15:32:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/101 "2005-08-17T04:10:09Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I don’t mean our production of oil. I mean our production of goods, especially as of 1994, which is when your cite’s data seems to come from. The oil we import is not used only for cars, you know. > > Also, since a large part of the current oil problem is the new demand from industrializing countries such as China, I suspect your cite’s figures are no longer even remotely relevant. [Graph](http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/Dem_image_Cons_per_cap.htm#Consumption%20of%20Oil%20Per%20Capita) As you can see from this following graph, most of the oil we do import is for transportation. [Graph 2](http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/Dem_image_US_cons_sector.htm) > [@](#): > > What’s known about China’s energy appetite today is startling. In 2004, Chinese oil consumption rose 15.8% year over year, and this is off a big base number as China is already the second largest single country consumer of oil on the planet, consuming 8.2% of annual world crude output. Only the US ranks higher, drinking up a 25% share of world output, but US demand growth in 2004 was a moderate 2.8%. [Source](http://www.trendvue.com/doc/11415) I think it was still relevent. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/102 "2005-08-17T05:13:04Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > I’m not amazed by the complaints about the increase in gasoline prices, but wonder how much the people complaining really consider the difficulties in providing the fuel. > > It is a non-renewable resource that has to be drilled and pumped from miles beneath the earth. It has to be purchased from the people who happen to live over it. It has to be transported thousands of miles across the ocean in tankers which can cost hundreds of millions of dollars. It has to be refined in facilities that can cost billions of dollars, then it has to be transported overland to the fueling stations which pump it into your tank. > \ Actually, [Canada](http://www.solcomhouse.com/usenergy.htm) is the top importer of oil to the United States at 1.9 MMBD. Mexico is the third largest importer at 1.5 MMBD. Canada also has the largest oil reserves in the world in the Alberta Tar Sands. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/103 "2005-08-17T11:45:24Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > This is always my favorite. That’s great you feel safer. What minimal collision safety advantages your vehicle affords comes [at the expense of the people in the smaller car](http://www.consumersunion.org/products/pittle-auto.htm). Because of the greater mass, stiffer frames, and higher ride, a side collision with an SUV is often fatal for a person in a sedan, as it just hops up into the passenger compartment of the struck vehicle. In car/SUV collisions, car drivers make up about 80% of the fatalities. I guess it pays to have an SUV. Yes, I have a fairly economical vehicle, I also have a small SUV. Unless they put in rationing, I’m going to drive as I like, when I like, and how I like. I pay for my gas and I’ll use it as I see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/104 "2005-08-17T13:40:56Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > You see, it’s this “SUV’s are safer” thing that really mystifies me. Do you read? [Rollovers](http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv3.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=301675&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=301665) are just one reason why SUVs are more dangerous than the average mid-sized sedan, but it’s certainly the most demonstrative. > As yours is 12 years old, you’ve got none of the modern safety features that mitigate this problem, except maybe a roll bar. SUV’s are not safer. Not in snow, not in rain, not in sunshine. Period. Why keep bringing that up when it’s so wrong? And why do people keep buying them thinking safety is an advantage? How many SUVs actually end up rolling over, in practice? Of all of the accidencts I’ve seen (and driving 600 miles / week, I see a few) I’ve seen exactly 1 rolled over SUV. I’ve seen a number of SUV-vs-passenger car accidents. Do you read? Try [this apparently anti-SUV site](http://www.suv.org/safety.html) > [@](#): > > In March 1999 NHTSA examined the design of many popular SUVs and found that the height and frames of SUVs make them extra lethal to people riding in smaller vehicles…The study declares that light trucks and SUVs are twice as likely to cause a fatality in the struck car than a passenger car of comparable weight.(13) There are a lot of SUVs on the road, and a lot of lunatics driving them. I feel a lot better in a Jeep than I did in an Escort. I don’t want to hijack the thread any further, so let me end with: Damn, gas is expensive!! Oh, for the good ole days of $0.97 / gallon. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/105 "2005-08-17T13:56:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > High end sports cars aren’t every third car on the street. Would it be OK if they were? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/106 "2005-08-17T14:04:01Z")
this morning when i saw that gas had broken $1/litre here, it occurred to me that i will see the oil supply exhausted in my lifetime. is it wrong that this through made my nipples hard? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/107 "2005-08-17T14:13:47Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > [Graph](http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/Dem_image_Cons_per_cap.htm#Consumption%20of%20Oil%20Per%20Capita) > > As you can see from this following graph, most of the oil we do import is for transportation. > > [Graph 2](http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/Dem_image_US_cons_sector.htm) > [Source](http://www.trendvue.com/doc/11415) > > I think it was still relevent. You’re missing my point. The gross national product of the U.S. in 1998 was just over 8 trillion dollars; the world total was just under 29 trillion. [Link.](http://www.worldbank.org/wdr/2000/pdfs/engtable12.pdf) Therefore, one could make this statement: The United States produced 27.6% of the world’s production, while only using 25% of the world’s oil. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/108 "2005-08-17T14:29:44Z")
California has apparently passed a law that highly efficient hybrids (40+ mpg) can use the carpool lanes even when driving solo. I understand they need to go to DMV for a decal and the Prius and 2 Honda’s qualify. Anyone have more details on this? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/109 "2005-08-17T14:33:25Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > California has apparently passed a law that highly efficient hybrids (40+ mpg) can use the carpool lanes even when driving solo. > I understand they need to go to DMV for a decal and the Prius and 2 Honda’s qualify. > > Anyone have more details on this? From the Source [http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm](http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/110 "2005-08-17T14:57:43Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > this morning when i saw that gas had broken $1/litre here, it occurred to me that i will see the oil supply exhausted in my lifetime. I’d be surprised. We actually have almost double the proven reserves now that we did back in the 80s when people were predicting the exhaustion of said reserves within a few tens of years. This is a result of both new discoveries and improvements in both exploration and recovery technology, meaning we can extract more now from a given field than we used to be able to. Those arguing the case that oil will run out imminently tend to assume that we have both found pretty much all the oil we’re going to find, and that we’re never going to get any better at extracting it. Both assumptions aren’t really borne out in practice. I would link to a graph, but I’m worried for the effect it might have on your nipples. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/111 "2005-08-17T14:58:04Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You’re missing my point. The gross national product of the U.S. in 1998 was just over 8 trillion dollars; the world total was just under 29 trillion. [Link.](http://www.worldbank.org/wdr/2000/pdfs/engtable12.pdf) Therefore, one could make this statement: The United States produced 27.6% of the world’s production, while only using 25% of the world’s oil. I won’t argue with that, but if we mandated fuel effiecient cars, and other fuel saving measures, and cut our oil consumption by even 5% be more fair for all of humanity? If that 25% of oil used was all for industry, and production those numbers would make sense, but since we use most of the oil in our vehicles there lies the problem. Not to worry though, in our lifetime, we can change it, or something else will. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/112 "2005-08-17T15:03:58Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > I won’t argue with that, but if we mandated fuel effiecient cars, and other fuel saving measures, and cut our oil consumption by even 5% be more fair for all of humanity? Certainly we can and should cut back on our usage, but to imply that we use 25% of the world’s supply because we’re just pissing it away is overly simplistic. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/113 "2005-08-17T15:12:10Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > I’d be surprised. We actually have almost double the proven reserves now that we did back in the 80s when people were predicting the exhaustion of said reserves within a few tens of years. This is a result of both new discoveries and improvements in both exploration and recovery technology, meaning we can extract more now from a given field than we used to be able to. Those arguing the case that oil will run out imminently tend to assume that we have both found pretty much all the oil we’re going to find, and that we’re never going to get any better at extracting it. Both assumptions aren’t really borne out in practice. > > I would link to a graph, but I’m worried for the effect it might have on your nipples. 🙂 ``` The only "new" discovery worth anything is the tar sands, but as is shown here, that is not a good source , its a hope, but not a reality. ``` > [@](#): > > The sand has to be strip-mined, two tons of it for each barrel of oil. Dump trucks the size of mini-mansions haul 400 tons in a single load, in beds heated during the subarctic winters so the sand doesn’t freeze into a giant blob. Next to the mine, the sand goes into the equivalent of giant washing machines, where torrents of warm water and solvent rinse out the tar, or bitumen, leaving wet sand that is dumped in tailing ponds. > Even then the bitumen is not ready to be piped off to a refinery like ordinary crude. To turn it back into crude oil, the operations either cook it in cokers, where temperatures of 900°F (500°C) break up the giant tar molecules, or heat it to lower temperatures and churn it with hydrogen gas and a catalyst. The result is a clean, low-sulfur crude—“beautiful stuff,” says Camarta. > But producing it is not so pretty, he acknowledges. “This really is a big, big project,” Camarta says of Shell’s four-billion-dollar mine and plant, which opened last year. “It has a big footprint too, and we don’t hide that—a big environmental and a big social imprint.” That may be all well and good except the natural gas we need to do that is in decline as well. Not to mention the enviromental damage this would cause. > [@](#): > > The oil industry is buzzing. On Thursday, the government approved the development of the biggest deposit discovered in British territory for at least 10 years. Everywhere we are told that this is a “huge” find, which dispels the idea that North Sea oil is in terminal decline. You begin to recognise how serious the human predicament has become when you discover that this “huge” new field will supply the world with oil for five and a quarter days > [@](#): > > The discovery of new reserves peaked in the 1960s. Every year we use four times as much oil as we find. All the big strikes appear to have been made long ago: the 400m barrels in the new North Sea field would have been considered piffling in the 1970s. Our future supplies depend on the discovery of small new deposits and the better exploitation of big old ones. [Link](http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,11319,1097672,00.html) > [@](#): > > World Oil Consumption: Since 1980, the world has consumed far more oil than has been discovered. > We are now finding only one barrel of new oil for every four barrels that we consume. As Donald > Hodel, Ex-U.S. Secretary of Energy said: “We are sleepwalking into a disaster.” [Source PDF](http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/Ivanhoe_00-1.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/114 "2005-08-17T15:55:02Z")
Well, I can only link to the subscription-only Economist [article](http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_id=3884716) I’ve got my figures from, but here’s some fair-use snippets (mods, this is less than 5% of the article): > [@](#): > > Peter Odell of Rotterdam’s Erasmus University points out that “since 1971, over 1,500 billion barrels have been added to reserves. Over the same 35-year period, under 800 billion barrels were consumed. One can argue for a world which has been ‘running into oil’ rather than ‘out of it’.” > > What makes the estimates go up continuously is a combination of economics and innovation. The IEA explains the process this way: “Reserves are constantly revised in line with new discoveries, changes in prices and technological advances. These revisions invariably add to the reserve base.” > > A few decades ago, the average oil recovery rate from reservoirs was 20%; thanks to remarkable advances in technology, this has risen to about 35% today. But despite this improvement, two-thirds of the oil known to exist in reservoirs is still abandoned as uneconomic, leaving room for tomorrow’s discoveries or innovations to lift recovery rates and magically push the global Hubbert’s peak even further towards the horizon. Pundits had predicted that fields in the British North Sea would reach their maximum output by 1990. In fact, they have only just peaked. > … > The unexplored potential in the Middle East remains vast. Pete Stark of IHS Energy, a leading consultancy on exploration, says that Iraq has over 130 undrilled prospects, and expects its proven reserves to rise sharply over time. Neighbouring Saudi Arabia has about 260 billion barrels of proven oil reserves today. Mr Naimi, the oil minister, is confident that current and future technologies will help lift that figure by 100 billion barrels in the next few decades, and points to an unexplored region on the Saudi-Iraqi border which alone is the size of California. > … > Already, the industry is exploring under water at depths that were unimaginable a decade or two ago. In the Gulf of Mexico and elsewhere, oil rigs now float atop 3,000 metres (10,000 feet) of water. These marvels of engineering are stuffed with the latest in robotics, electronic sensors and satellite equipment. Using fancy “multilateral” wells that twist and turn in all directions, they can hit giant underwater oil pockets miles away from the rig. The chart, which I can’t link to, shows proven reserves thus: 1983: ~0.7 trillion barrels 1993: ~1.0 trillion barrels 2003: ~1.15 trillion barrels The Guardian cites no firm figures for reserves. It is, however, impossible for us to have been consuming faster than our reserves are increasing, if the total reserves have gone up, and gone up they apparently have. I suspect that (if its basic statistic is even correct) the Guardian is making the same mistake pointed out above, i.e. ignoring improvements in recovery. The PDF cited is, well, interesting to say the least. I confess I’ve not seen research papers before that consisted of photocopied graphs with the enormous word “NO!” written across them, but it doesn’t bode awfully well for the authors’ even-handed outlook, I have to say. Pretty much everything in the paper appears geared towards reaching a specific conclusion, and the authors appear to allow for pretty much no further discoveries whatsoever, and give a highly pessimistic outlook for improved recovery effects. Another Economist [article](http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3884594) (subs only again, I’m afraid) shows a quite radically different projected graph from the IEA, an inter-governmental agency “committed to advancing security of energy supply, economic growth and environmental sustainability through energy policy co-operation”, excerpted from their annual World Energy Outlook report. Clearly oil is a finite resource, but the prophecies of doom that have been so common since the late fifties are based on some really dubious assumptions that have repeatedly been proven wrong, yet are still lovingly adhered to in some circles. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/115 "2005-08-17T16:08:17Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > The PDF cited is, well, interesting to say the least. I confess I’ve not seen research papers before that consisted of photocopied graphs with the enormous word “NO!” written across them, but it doesn’t bode awfully well for the authors’ even-handed outlook, Thats the problem **everyone** has a stake in this, both the USGS, the OPEC nations, the oil companies, and the Economist. ``` There is no even-handed outlook, some want you to believe there is more then enough oil, others want you to believe there is not enough oil. But until OPEC and the oil companies allow independent audits of there reserves, no one can be sure. ``` Go read what Chevron says at [WillYouJoinUs.com](http://WillYouJoinUs.com), they seem to be a tad worried about it. Then there are the infamous over-stating of reserves, by companies and countries that need to be explained. As well as why economists tend to be the optimists, and the geologists tend to be the pessimists. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/116 "2005-08-17T16:31:34Z")
The best take on this I saw lately was that we are running out of **cheap** oil. That is an extremely important distinction. The Alberta Tar Sands have tonnes of oil in it, of course - it costs one barrel of energy to extract four barrels from it at this point, and the process is extremely dirty environmentally, producing all kinds of waste products, including greenhouse gases. Nobody knows when the easily-accessed oil reserves are going to run out, but everyone running out and buying the largest, highest consuming vehicle they can find definitely isn’t helping. And that’s not even taking into account the lack of environmental controls on large vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/117 "2005-08-17T17:25:22Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Would it be OK if they were? I was explaining the lack of complaining about similar gas-guzzling vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/118 "2005-08-17T17:54:42Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Yeah, but soon I’ll be able to telecommute… any year now… hah! I’m only seeing retrenchment and resistance by the bosses on this one. From what I’ve been able to observe its mainly government workers who get to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/119 "2005-08-17T18:06:14Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > My brother is a Notes geek for United HC, and he gets to. The lucky bastard. Why does a webtrends guru need to drive in, Ethy? Because soon someone will realize that they can find an Indian or Chinese web guru who will do it for a pittance. The brutal, sad fact of telecommuting is that it works just as well from Bangalore and Beijing as it does from your cozy couch. Consequently one of the arguments for keeping highly paid jobs on these shores is such intangibles as the benefit of staff being onsite and available. Whoops, didn’t see that one coming, did we??? God dammit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283/120 "2005-08-17T18:10:10Z")
> [@Dag Otto](#): > > That’s part of a solution, but not all of it. Certainly, a tax to discourage use of gasoline probably should be used in the USA, but applied to all vehicles… Using the tax to provide a reasonable alternative is something that this country needs to do now. We have enough roads. We don’t have enough alternatives to driving. Okay- so what happens to us marginal folks during that period of time between A) tax is implemented and B) alternatives are finished? Everyone can be smug all you want regarding your brand-new top-line save-the-world hybrid car, but some of us aren’t making the kind of money necessary to buy or lease a brand new car. My car isn’t as bad as an SUV, but at 23 MPG, it’s not much better. But gas prices would have to double before it became worthwhile to buy a new hybrid car for the increased efficiency. Once this tax gets implemented, what alternatives do I have? I can’t commute any more than I already do- no one else at my workplace lives near me and no one who lives near me works near where I do. I can’t move closer to where I work, because that would double or triple my rent, which kind of undoes any benefit of lower gas use. And public transportation is so expensive around here that gas prices would have to hit $4 a gallon (and public transportation not have any increase in price) for it to equal my current commute costs. So, really, all a gas tax does is fuck me hard for the three to four years before this hypothetical solution I’m paying for materializes. Or possibly for longer; the Wilson Bridge project is _almost_ done after nearly a decade of work on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-fuckers-whining-about-gas-prices/317283.md?page=7)