# All you poor, deluded sufferers of communist health care in Europe, take heart **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855 "2012-04-24T22:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/21 "2012-04-25T15:00:08Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105680875](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105680875) > > That took all of two minutes. Of course, neither example is specifically about acne medication and a heart attack, so I doubt **Bricker** sees them as sufficient evidence. Bricker knows all of this. In all my years on this board he has not once been interested in facts. It’s all about his ‘side’ winning. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/22 "2012-04-25T15:07:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Our usual tool for spreading freedom around the world is a bombing campaign. Please provide your coordinates, and we will have a predator drone sent your way immediately. This service is provided 24/7, no waiting. Thanks for your business and we hope you’ll consider using the US Military Industrial Complex for all your liberation needs in the future. No problem - [here you go](http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9LlNXMUElMmIyQUIlN2Vzc3QuMCU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9NTYuNTA3NDcwMTU0NjY0MiU3ZTkuOTQ2MDYxNTM3MjUwMDMlN2U0NS43NjMwMzgzMzI4MDMyJTdlLTEwLjMxMjcyNzUyNTI1). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/23 "2012-04-25T15:12:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No problem - [here you go](http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9LlNXMUElMmIyQUIlN2Vzc3QuMCU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9NTYuNTA3NDcwMTU0NjY0MiU3ZTkuOTQ2MDYxNTM3MjUwMDMlN2U0NS43NjMwMzgzMzI4MDMyJTdlLTEwLjMxMjcyNzUyNTI1). Please hold while we ready your cell at Guantanamo Resorts. Enjoy your stay. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/24 "2012-04-25T15:25:02Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105680875](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105680875) > > That took all of two minutes. Of course, neither example is specifically about acne medication and a heart attack, so I doubt **Bricker** sees them as sufficient evidence. Thanks folks, but we must be completely, nit-pickingly totally specific here.\*\* Ferret Herder\*\* is completely correct of course - I had remembered the specific details of the case incorrectly. Naturally, in **Bricker** -world, the fact that I had a detail wrong completely and totally negates my main point -that companies regularly practice rescission based on stupid reasons in order to deny treatment for major conditions and thus save the companies money. Thanks for the help folks, but as long as **Bricker** has a nit to fall back on, he’s golden. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/25 "2012-04-25T15:28:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please hold while we ready your cell at Guantanamo Resorts. Enjoy your stay. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. But you do get free health care. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/26 "2012-04-25T15:28:37Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Bricker knows all of this. In all my years on this board he has not once been interested in facts. It’s all about his ‘side’ winning. Several posters have said things along these lines, but I seriously think **Bricker** is looking into these examples, and I don’t think he is going to try to wriggle out of his agreement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/27 "2012-04-25T15:32:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > But you do get free health care. The terrorist have won! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/28 "2012-04-25T15:36:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please hold while we ready your cell at Guantanamo Resorts. Enjoy your stay. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. Thanks! I’m looking forward to it, and if I seem to struggle a bit when the men come to pick me up, it’s only because I’m so keen to go. Tell them they can call me “George” if they like. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/29 "2012-04-25T15:44:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Several posters have said things along these lines, but I seriously think **Bricker** is looking into these examples, and I don’t think he is going to try to wriggle out of his agreement. Ah. Reverse psychology. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/30 "2012-04-25T15:46:50Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Ah. Reverse psychology. Got it. No, I’m being sincere. It takes time and a lot of serious thought to change you mind about something like that-it’s not as easy as changing a channel. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/31 "2012-04-25T15:52:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, I’m being sincere. It takes time and a lot of serious thought to change you mind about something like that-it’s not as easy as changing a channel. His discussion point was not about the larger topic of rescission, and how patients are routinely denied coverage when insurance companies go back and find small errors or pre-existing conditions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the insurance claim. His point was to pick a nit about the details of one specific example that I used. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/32 "2012-04-25T16:22:21Z")
Well, I’ve learned something. I don’t believe I lost my wager, as I think **EP** concedes. But I must admit that I said what I said because I was confident that the story’s illustration was wrong in concept, not just wrong in specific detail. And in fact, I see now that it wasn’t. It was wrong in the specifics, but correct in the intention: companies do seem to seek recission for highly trivial reasons. I had no problem with a company denying coverage for cancer after it learns that a person was previously treated for cancer, even if a mild form of it. That makes perfect sense. But I did not realize that companies had the business plan of denying coverage for a typo on weight, one not even submitted by the applicant. So I’d like to spend a bit of time in research, and see what the result was when these decision were (as they must have been) challenged for bad faith. But I owe **EP** an apology – I thought you were exaggerating. Turns out you were merely misrembering a detail. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/33 "2012-04-25T16:28:24Z")
One that really made me sick was the one about termination of insurance during treatment for stage IV non-Hodgkin’s cancer, over an old CT scan done that revealed a tiny aneurysm and some small gallstones. The doctor hadn’t reported those results to the patient. It took 2 appeals and the IL AG to get him reinstated. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/34 "2012-04-25T16:28:54Z")
**Bricker** has changed his mind on these boards before; publicly, and about a major issue. Frankly, that’s more than I can say about pretty much any other poster, liberal or conservative. He’s shown that he will align his opinion where the evidence points. Let’s at least wait for the guy to do the “wrong” thing before we start sniping, huh? eta: I see he posted while I was typing, and was open minded and intelligent as I thought he would be. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/35 "2012-04-25T16:30:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But I owe **EP** an apology – I thought you were exaggerating. Turns out you were merely misrembering a detail. Thank you for this **Bricker**. And for the record, I would not want you to stop debating the topic. It’s a very important one. I think the LA Times quote posted earlier is important here: > [@](#): > > An investigation by the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations showed that health insurers WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group and Assurant Inc. canceled the coverage of more than 20,000 people, allowing the companies to avoid paying more than $300 million in medical claims over a five-year period. > > It also found that policyholders with breast cancer, lymphoma and more than 1,000 other conditions were targeted for rescission and that employees were praised in performance reviews for terminating the policies of customers with expensive illnesses. > [@](#): > > The executives – Richard A. Collins, chief executive of UnitedHealth’s Golden Rule Insurance Co.; Don Hamm, chief executive of Assurant Health and Brian Sassi, president of consumer business for WellPoint Inc., parent of Blue Cross of California – were courteous and matter-of-fact in their testimony. > > But they would not commit to limiting rescissions to only policyholders who intentionally lie or commit fraud to obtain coverage, a refusal that met with dismay from legislators on both sides of the political aisle. In other words, the goal of rescission is to terminate policies in order to increase profits. And, they \*\*fully admit \*\*that they will continue to deny coverage based on mistakes or non-related conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/36 "2012-04-25T16:43:57Z")
A leper approaches Jesus. Rabbi, I am in pain. Heal me! Jesus: Please give your health insurance card to Simon over there. Leper: But I do not have a card, master. Jesus: Oh well. _Lays hands on him_ You are healed. Now, please sit over there, and Judas will negotiate terms of your payment. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/37 "2012-04-25T16:44:44Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > [More examples](http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2009/09/15/60852/meet-your-insurance-company-executive-rescission/?mobile=nc) > > Let the Bricker wriggling, nit-picking and arm-waving begin. I’ve personally had a health claim rejected _that took 6 months_ for the insurance company to re-accept because they found that the doctor had written a date as MM/DD/YY instead of MM/DD/YYYY on one of the forms. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/38 "2012-04-25T16:50:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I had no problem with a company denying coverage for cancer after it learns that a person was previously treated for cancer, even if a mild form of it. That makes perfect sense. Isn’t cancer one of the few diseases that is likely to recur if not treated effectively? Am I misunderstanding this post or are you advocating that people can not switch insurance if they’d gotten cancer? in the UK, I’m fairly sure people are treated whether its their first time or third time getting cancer… ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/39 "2012-04-25T16:55:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I called up the NHS helpline in the wee small hours of Saturday night/Sunday morning and got an GP appointment for my daughter that day. On a _Sunday_. **Easter** Sunday. > > And then we went to a pharmacy to get her medicine. Which is _free_ for under-18s. > > Won’t someone please save us from this oppression? See. This is the problem with communist medicine. The system is so overburdened that you had to wait till the next morning! Bastards! And you had to go in on a holiday! Stinkin pinko communist healthcare %$#&^%…[sup]\*[/sup] [sup]\*[/sup]This message brought to you by Betsy McCaughey, Sarah Palin, and tea parties everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855/40 "2012-04-25T16:57:02Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Isn’t cancer one of the few diseases that is likely to recur if not treated effectively? Am I misunderstanding this post or are you advocating that people can not switch insurance if they’d gotten cancer? > > in the UK, I’m fairly sure people are treated whether its their first time or third time getting cancer… I believe he’s saying that it might be acceptable if the person didn’t disclose that they’ve previously had cancer when applying for coverage as opposed to a case of acne from 25 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-poor-deluded-sufferers-of-communist-health-care-in-europe-take-heart/619855.md?page=3)