# All you Zimmerman-lovers in the Great Debates thread are... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470 "2012-06-08T04:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/221 "2012-06-14T21:49:09Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > You’re just proving my point. The idea of you going to bat like this for Cory Maye is ludicrous. In conservative land, arrest means gui.ty and that’s that and how dare you question our noble and patriotic cops…unless a white guy gets accused of a crime against a black guy and then suddenly you all turn into Clarence Fucking Darrow. The irony of you being the one displaying prejudice here is not lost on me. If you want me to go on record as saying that the treatment of black people by the police and courts is very often shameful and unjust, I will. The treatment of black people by the police and courts is very often shameful and unjust. I stick by my point that the answer to that is not to also treat white and/or hispanic people in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/222 "2012-06-14T22:07:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > And of course G. Gordon Liddy is famous for his integrity and honesty so if he said this happened it had to have happened. Yeah, while it’s certainly possible, once you defend Nazis it’s pretty hard to say that a sack of shit like Liddy is just too extreme. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/223 "2012-06-15T16:42:32Z")
Defending the rights of reprehensible people to speak their minds in no way implies an endorsement of their views. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/224 "2012-06-16T19:04:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > And of course G. Gordon Liddy is famous for his integrity and honesty so if he said this happened it had to have happened. I can’t think of an instance of Liddy lying. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/225 "2012-06-17T05:53:54Z")
Figured House’s maxim can be pretty easily tested with [google](http://lsori.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/g-gordon-liddy.html). Course, he could just be stupid or insane. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/226 "2012-06-17T06:41:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t think of an instance of Liddy lying. Considering that Liddy was perfectly fine with committing murder and terrorist bombings to advance his political agenda, I see no reason to believe that he wouldn’t lie. Moreover, I didn’t call him a liar, I merely noted that he wasn’t noted for his honesty or his integrity which is something that no serious person would dispute. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/227 "2012-06-26T04:25:28Z")
I have come to the conclusion that the Dimmerman supporters still left arguing in that thread are simply, while not actually bad people at all, pretty stupid. Do any of them realize that the most thoughtful and measured of them, Bricker, quietly backed away once Zimmerman was found to be as reliable as a crackhead? There’s a reason for that. Bricker plays the odds, 'cause he’s _smart_, and the smart lawyer in him won’t let him even APPEAR to endorse someone caught lying to investigators, court personnel, or any other official in the criminal justice system. Bricker knows that this idiot is probably lying about everything from his shoe size to which hand he writes with, and rightfully has hung Dimmerman out to fucking dry. The others left are not just as bright. Notice I didn’t say they’re bad people. I don’t think they are. Generally, I try to have mercy on the not-so-bright, but this is the Goddamn PIT, bitches, and I’m going to tell it like it is here. No offense to the stupid. It’s like Ron White says…“You can’t fix stupid.”…and so I see no point in being mean to them. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/228 "2012-06-26T10:41:59Z")
Yep, anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid. Great argument there. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/229 "2012-06-26T21:54:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Defending the rights of reprehensible people to speak their minds in no way implies an endorsement of their views. It is instead, the very guts of true free speech. The popular and the widely accepted don’t need defending. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/230 "2012-06-27T03:13:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yep, anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid. I notice the person with the most experience in criminal law _by far_ is clearly distancing himself from Dimmerman. That single fact lowers the average IQ and legal skills of his remaining supporters by quite a noticeable amount. But, to be clear, I don’t assume Dimmy’s _guilt_. I assume his _stupidity_, _lack of good judgement_, and his _tendency to lie_. _All three_ assumptions are supported by the facts. He was out driving one night, and ended up shooting an unarmed teenager to death. That doesn’t happen to smart people with good judgement. He conspired to mislead the court about his finances. He also married someone who is willing to mislead the court. Not only that, he didn’t even conspire _competently_. He got caught almost immediately. Given that Dimmy has poor judgement, low intelligence, and tends to lie, I’m going to come down on the side of guessing he’s guilty. However, I’m open to the possibility that this is just like the Duke lacrosse case. Certainly we’ll all find out in the next year or less. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/231 "2012-06-27T04:59:43Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I notice the person with the most experience in criminal law _by far_ is clearly distancing himself from Dimmerman. You keep saying that as if it is true. Bricker said, from the very beginning, and still says now, that with the evidence that is out in public, he thinks there is no case against Zimmerman. Period. Ask him if you don’t believe me. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/232 "2012-06-27T08:43:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You keep saying that as if it is true. > > Bricker said, from the very beginning, and still says now, that with the evidence that is out in public, he thinks there is no case against Zimmerman. Period. Ask him if you don’t believe me. To add to this, **Bricker** is assuming that, because Zimmerman has been charged, the prosecution must have evidence that shows a strong probability that he’s guilty, otherwise they should not have charged him. I’d like to agree with that, but in this particular case the outcry has been such that I have my doubts that the elected prosecutor has put legal ethics above the chance of reelection. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/233 "2012-06-27T08:45:12Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Given that Dimmy has poor judgement, low intelligence, and tends to lie, I’m going to come down on the side of guessing he’s guilty. Which makes it extremely fortunate, for everyone, that you don’t get to decide. As I’ve repeatedly said in these threads, him having done some stuff you dislike does not make him guilty of murder, and to claim otherwise makes you far more dangerous than he could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/234 "2012-06-28T03:07:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Which makes it extremely fortunate, for everyone, that you don’t get to decide. As I’ve repeatedly said in these threads, him having done some stuff you dislike does not make him guilty of murder, and to claim otherwise makes you far more dangerous than he could ever be. Yep, I’m dangerous, because I think guns should not be in the hands of people who have bad judgement. If you think Dimmy’s judgement is good, dude, wow. I’m not in a rush to judgement of Dimmy, unlike you are of Trayvon. If he’s innocent, then he is, and that’s that. It’s _possible_ that the whole thing went down exactly like he said. I doubt it, though. He strikes me as a stupid liar with impulse control problems and bad judgement. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/235 "2012-06-28T03:12:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > To add to this, **Bricker** is assuming that, because Zimmerman has been charged, the prosecution must have evidence that shows a strong probability that he’s guilty, otherwise they should not have charged him. > > I’d like to agree with that, but in this particular case the outcry has been such that I have my doubts that the elected prosecutor has put legal ethics above the chance of reelection. I hear you. I certainly agree it could be a politically motivated prosecution. The truth will come out in court, no doubt. Let’s face it, though–following someone at night and then shooting them to death, at least on the face of it, seems to kind of violate the whole _spirit_ of any intelligent SYG law, even if not the actual letter of the law. And I have my doubts that Dimmy even obeyed the letter of the law, or even exactly knew what the letter was. I would like to point out, though, that Bricker isn’t exactly a spring chicken, nor did he graduate from law school yesterday. He also (IIRC) has noted that Dimmy’s lawyer waived the right to a speedy trial, which is NOT usually a sign of an innocent defendant. ---
**Author:** ![pikey\_pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pikey\_pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikey_pete)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/236 "2012-06-28T07:34:32Z")
Zimmerman did so much shit wrong it is pathetic. Screw the racism, he should be jailed for sheer stupidity. First, when the 911 dispatcher tells you to stay in your car, getting out of your car is stupid. Second, if you aren’t a cop don’t confront people, it just makes them angry. Third, if you have a gun because it serves as your metapenis, leave it at home and stroke it when you get scared. When people carry weapons as compensation for perceived personal deficits, stupidity ensues and someone gets hurt. Fourth, if you are armed, guess what, you have a way to keep an unarmed assailant at a distance without shooting them. I have found that when a gun is pointed at someone who is unarmed, they tend follow the maxim ‘the person with the gun makes the rules.’ Fifth, just because you aren’t white doesn’t mean you can’t be racist. For fuck’s sake, I’ve been a legal to carry concealed since 1996. I have only ever needed and used my gun once: while being attacked by a doberman. That time it was very useful in reducing the number of stitches it took to put me back together again. I usually leave my sidearm locked up at home, because I find that if you avoid stupid situations, i don’t need it, and at that point it is just another couple pounds I have to lug around all day. In summation Zim is criminally stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/237 "2012-06-28T09:58:55Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Yep, I’m dangerous, because I think guns should not be in the hands of people who have bad judgement. No, you’re dangerous because you think it’s desirable to punish people who haven’t been convicted of a crime, and deny them their rights because you dislike them. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/238 "2012-06-28T10:04:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > My personal rule of thumb is if the police thinks you’re white, for all practical purposes, you’re white. > > . More than one cop and government official has identified me as hispanic in the USA, despite the fact my mom is from Germany and my dad from Alabama and consider themselves white. I…guess I am hispanic then! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/239 "2012-06-28T10:06:46Z")
> [@pikey\_pete](#): > > Zimmerman did so much shit wrong it is pathetic. Screw the racism, he should be jailed for sheer stupidity. No, he shouldn’t. You, also, are more dangerous than Zimmerman could ever be. > [@](#): > > First, when the 911 dispatcher tells you to stay in your car, getting out of your car is stupid. That’s irrelevant, as stupidity isn’t illegal, the dispatcher didn’t tell Zimmerman to stay in his car, and even had he, he has no authority. > [@](#): > > Second, if you aren’t a cop don’t confront people, it just makes them angry. Agreed, it was stupid of Martin to confront Zimmerman. That is what you’re referring to, right? > [@](#): > > Third, if you have a gun because it serves as your metapenis, leave it at home and stroke it when you get scared. When people carry weapons as compensation for perceived personal deficits, stupidity ensues and someone gets hurt. How about when they carry them to defend from unprovoked attacks? Again, it would be more helpful if you’d address what actually happened, rather than showering everyone with bullshit based on ignorant prejudices. > [@](#): > > Fourth, if you are armed, guess what, you have a way to keep an unarmed assailant at a distance without shooting them. I have found that when a gun is pointed at someone who is unarmed, they tend follow the maxim ‘the person with the gun makes the rules.’ That, however, would have been illegal. Also impossible in this case, as it was a close range fight where Martin was on top of Zimmerman. He had no opportunity to get his assailant at distance. > [@](#): > > Fifth, just because you aren’t white doesn’t mean you can’t be racist. That’s the first sensible thing you’ve said. > [@](#): > > For fuck’s sake, I’ve been a legal to carry concealed since 1996. I have only ever needed and used my gun once: while being attacked by a doberman. That time it was very useful in reducing the number of stitches it took to put me back together again. I usually leave my sidearm locked up at home, because I find that if you avoid stupid situations, i don’t need it, and at that point it is just another couple pounds I have to lug around all day. Lucky you. I hope that, if ever you are the victim of an unprovoked attack, you have some means to defend yourself. > [@](#): > > In summation Zim is criminally stupid. There is no such thing as criminally stupid. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/240 "2012-06-28T10:15:46Z")
> [@pikey\_pete](#): > > Zimmerman did so much shit wrong it is pathetic. Screw the racism, he should be jailed for sheer stupidity. . this, I agree with (mostly) > [@pikey\_pete](#): > > Second, if you aren’t a cop don’t confront people, it just makes them angry.. This, I don’t - we should “protect” our society / community (no I don’t know exactly what this means either). If we don’t do this, then what point is it being a part of a community? I think George went about it all wrong, but in general, we do need to step forward and take a role in stopping bad things around us. Which means that, in general, if you see something bad happening you do something about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470.md?page=13)