# All you Zimmerman-lovers in the Great Debates thread are... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470 "2012-06-08T04:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/41 "2012-06-09T03:22:25Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I realize I’m only recently returned after a long hiatus, but I kind of thought the idea was that you’re supposed to be foaming at the mouth _before_ you open a thread in the Pit, not in reaction to how people react to your Pit thread. I was _anticipating_ foaming, assuming that that the Zimmerman-lovers were exactly the fools, asses, and bigots I guessed they might be. But I also felt the need to just call a bigot a bigot openly, and you can’t do that in Great Debates. So here I am, calling bigots bigots, racists racists, etc.. These guys aren’t going to change their minds. At least I can, here, let them know what they are (for the few that don’t really know yet ), and that I KNOW what they are (for the majority who already know what they are). Or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/42 "2012-06-09T03:24:36Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Bigot. If I am one, then I am. But the 3 or 4 people who’ve told me how poorly blacks and hispanics get along, in general, were all black. Co-workers, acquaintances, etc.. Were THEY bigots too? Relating their impressions of how well two groups of people tend to get along? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/43 "2012-06-09T03:36:13Z")
Do you realize that a lot of Hispanic people ARE Black? How does that work? And no, there is no greater enmity there than there is between any other similar (arbitrarily defined and blurred) groups. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/44 "2012-06-09T03:47:16Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Blacks and Hispanics aren’t exactly known for their cross-community respect, admiration, and love. > [@al27052](#): > > \*\* the 3 or 4 people who’ve told me \*\*how poorly blacks and hispanics get along… > > Were THEY bigots too? Relating their impressions of how well two groups of people tend to get along? (my bold) Hmm, so you are forming you’re “aren’t exactly known for…” opinion, which is stated to read as if it’s common knowledge, based on the opinions of a handful of people? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/45 "2012-06-09T03:50:03Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > (my bold) > Hmm, so you are forming you’re “aren’t exactly known for…” opinion, which is stated to read as if it’s common knowledge, based on the opinions of a handful of people? :dubious: Well actually, black AND hispanic comedians will joke about this from time to time. It’s common knowledge in those subcultures. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/46 "2012-06-09T03:53:44Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Do you realize that a lot of Hispanic people ARE Black? How does that work? > > And no, there is no greater enmity there than there is between any other similar (arbitrarily defined and blurred) groups. And there are probably a few people descended from both Nazis and Jews-who-died-in-concentration-camps. For that matter, there are definitely some people who are part-Arab, part-Jew. What’s your point? You mystify me, though. Why would you think I would supplant my experience-based opinion (secondhand, but from multiple unconnected sources) with the not-even-supported-by-ANYTHING opinion that you are selling? Just how easily-led do you believe me to be, internet troll? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/47 "2012-06-09T03:59:11Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Do you realize that a lot of Hispanic people ARE Black? How does that work? I don’t know, how does that work? Is this some bullshit, pedantic nitpick about some tiny fraction of black people who come from a hispanic culture? No one cares. We are talking about appearance. **al27052** ’s statement is valid. To give just one example: [Where black and brown collide](http://www.economist.com/node/9587776) EDIT: Another example, from the New York Times, about how hispanics might not vote for Obama because he is black. > **[In Obama’s Pursuit of Latinos, Race Plays Role (Published 2008)](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15hispanic.html?pagewanted=all)** > > Barack Obama confronts a history of often uneasy and competitive relations between blacks and Latinos. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/48 "2012-06-09T04:05:39Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I don’t know, how does that work? Is this some bullshit, pedantic nitpick about some tiny fraction of black people who come from a hispanic culture? No one cares. We are talking about appearance. > > **al27052** ’s statement is valid. To give just one example: [Where black and brown collide](http://www.economist.com/node/9587776) > > EDIT: Another example, from the New York Times, about how hispanics might not vote for Obama because he is black. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15hispanic.html?pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15hispanic.html?pagewanted=all) Just to further prove my point, here’s a quote from that link: “…In June a Gallup poll showed that black Democrats were evenly divided between Mr Obama and Hillary Clinton, while whites gave Mrs Clinton a 16-point lead. Among Hispanics, however, the senator from New York led by a crushing 46 points—despite Mr Obama’s impeccably liberal line on immigration…” What’s up with that? That bespeaks a serious hate among Hispanics of Obama. I wonder what that’s about…oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/49 "2012-06-09T04:13:30Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > What’s your point? That you’re an idiot. > [@Absolute](#): > > I don’t know, how does that work? Is this some bullshit, pedantic nitpick about some tiny fraction of black people who come from a hispanic culture? No one cares. We are talking about appearance. It is not a tiny fraction. And “talking about appearance” is part of the reason a lot of people believe it to be a tiny fraction. > [@](#): > > **al27052** ’s statement is valid. To give just one example: [Where black and brown collide](http://www.economist.com/node/9587776) > > EDIT: Another example, from the New York Times, about how hispanics might not vote for Obama because he is black. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15hispanic.html?pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15hispanic.html?pagewanted=all) So is it your contention that Hispanics discriminate against Blacks to a greater degree/frequency than Whites discriminate against Blacks, or vice versa? Go back and read what I said, if you think I was saying something else. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/50 "2012-06-09T04:29:39Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > It is not a tiny fraction. And “talking about appearance” is part of the reason a lot of people believe it to be a tiny fraction. According to Wikipedia, 2.5% of hispanics fall into this “black hispanic” overly-specific categorization. That is a tiny fraction. 1 in 40. > [@](#): > > So is it your contention that Hispanics discriminate against Blacks to a greater degree/frequency than Whites discriminate against Blacks, or vice versa? > > Go back and read what I said, if you think I was saying something else. From here: > **[New America Media](https://newamericamedia.org?article_id=28501933d0e5c5344b21f9640dc13754)** > [@](#): > > The poll found that 61% of Hispanics … would rather do business with whites than members of the other two groups [blacks and asians]. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/51 "2012-06-09T04:31:02Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > That you’re an idiot. > It is not a tiny fraction. And “talking about appearance” is part of the reason a lot of people believe it to be a tiny fraction. > > So is it your contention that Hispanics discriminate against Blacks to a greater degree/frequency than Whites discriminate against Blacks, or vice versa? > > Go back and read what I said, if you think I was saying something else. I re-read what you said. You said there’s no more enmity between blacks and hispanics than between any other groups. I’d say those poll numbers proved otherwise, though. You can call me an idiot. I probably am one. You’re the bigger one, though, for siding with Bricker and the cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/52 "2012-06-09T04:34:05Z")
I don’t see any hint of bigotry in **Bricker’s** post. But I suspect a lot of Hispanics are bigots. As are most humans. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/53 "2012-06-09T04:45:57Z")
I’ve often disagreed with Bricker on both the substance of issues and the manner in which he debates issues. But I’ve never felt there was any evidence of bigotry in anything he’s posted. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/54 "2012-06-09T04:52:42Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Well actually, black AND hispanic comedians will joke about this from time to time. It’s common knowledge in those subcultures. Yeah I get all of my information about racial interaction in society from stand-up comedy. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/55 "2012-06-09T05:09:32Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > According to Wikipedia, 2.5% of hispanics fall into this “black hispanic” overly-specific categorization. That is a tiny fraction. 1 in 40. That’s limited to the U.S. population, not that I believe the accuracy of those numbers, anyway. But whatever, we’re straying far afield from the topic of what an idiot the OP is. > [@](#): > > From here: > > [http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view\_article.html?article\_id=28501933d0e5c5344b21f9640dc13754](http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=28501933d0e5c5344b21f9640dc13754) And that doesn’t really contradict what I said. > [@al27052](#): > > I re-read what you said. You said there’s no more enmity between blacks and hispanics than between any other groups. I’d say those poll numbers proved otherwise, though. No, they didn’t. If you weren’t such an idiot, you might understand how glaringly obvious it is that mixing politics into it would MAJORLY skew the numbers. HINT: Most racist White people wouldn’t be voting for a Democrat in the first place. > [@](#): > > You can call me an idiot. I probably am one. You’re the bigger one, though, for siding with Bricker and the cowboys. As further proof of your idiocy, you assume I’m on Bricker’s “side”\* of the Zimmerman/Martin case. HINT: You might want to read what I’ve written on that topic before you decide what side of it I’m on. - - I wrote “side” in quotes because, as near as I can tell, Bricker doesn’t have a side in that debate other than “whatever is legal is right” or somewhere thereabouts. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/56 "2012-06-09T05:12:10Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I think you’re mostly correct, but given that all 5 of Zimmermans calls to 911 about suspicious people happened to be black, makes me think that there was some at least latent racism on his part. There were way more than 5 calls to “911” (they were mostly to non-emergency number, including the last one) that Zimmerman made, and they definitely were not all about suspicious black people. I remember there were suspicious whites and suspicious Hispanics. Don’t think there were any suspicious Asians though. Maybe Zimmerman is a secret Asian supremacist. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/57 "2012-06-09T05:17:40Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > If I am one, then I am. > > But the 3 or 4 people who’ve told me how poorly blacks and hispanics get along, in general, were all black. Co-workers, acquaintances, etc.. > > Were THEY bigots too? Relating their impressions of how well two groups of people tend to get along? Um, yes? You just got through admitting that minorities can be racist. That’s the only way calling **Bricker** racist makes sense, seeing as he’s (El) Salvadoran. The black people you are talking about are disparaging Hispanic people as a race. And, while I’m a bit P.O.'d at the man right now for going around rubbing people’s faces in the Walker win, **Bricker** has never said or done anything that would make me think he is racist. He has, as far as I can tell, two flaws: overlegalizing things–and he’s getting better at that–and a bit of blindness when his political party doctrine contradicts compassion/Christianity–and he’s a lot better than most in that. There are racists on this board, but **Bricker** is not amongst them at all. He’s a decent guy who just happens to be wrong about a few things. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/58 "2012-06-09T05:25:35Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I wrote “side” in quotes because, as near as I can tell, Bricker doesn’t have a side in that debate other than “whatever is legal is right” or somewhere thereabouts. It’s not even quite that, as he’s come down pretty hard on the Stand Your Ground law. And he believes the prosecutor must have some strong evidence against Zimmerman, or else they would have dropped charges. So he’s actually slightly on the anti-Zimmerman side. And he pretty much convinced me to be there, too, though I came from the opposite direction. The one person I think might have needed to be pitted for his pro-Zimmerman stance was **magiver** (sp?), and, even then, it’s only because he acts like he’s being neutral while clearly taking the Zimmerman side, using a few disclaimers to try to appear neutral. I honestly don’t have a problem with his side. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/59 "2012-06-09T05:54:17Z")
I’m on the side of people being allowed to defend themselves against vicious, unprovoked attacks without being effectively tried and convicted by the media, and also on the side of people being allowed to call the police on people fitting the profile of suspected criminals without being criticised for it. While we’re at it, I’m on the side of people being judged on the actual evidence, not on vague feelings people have about “what must have happened”, and applying the actual laws whether you agree with them or not. On the latter two situations, that puts me firmly on Zimmerman’s side, and I think anyone who disagrees is far more dangerous than any individual murderer, as they put everyone at risk by ignoring the process of law. As for the first, it will depend if his story holds up. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/60 "2012-06-09T06:02:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Yeah I get all of my information about racial interaction in society from stand-up comedy. To be fair, he didn’t say he got all of his information from those sources; only that he got some of his information from them. (Sorry, this is a sensitive point of form for me…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470.md?page=4)