# All you Zimmerman-lovers in the Great Debates thread are... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470 "2012-06-08T04:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/161 "2012-06-13T01:11:10Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin? Huh? Well, let see now. We have reliable testimony that he was alive before. Video tape at the Qwik E Mart, for instance. Reliable testimony from the coroner that he is, in fact, dead. Bullet hole. Gun matching bullet hole in Zimmerman’s immediate possession. More? [/QUOTE] Aside from the bullet wound, however, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence of defensive wounds or other blows he received…which you’ve conveniently forgotten DO exist in the case of Zimmerman, who has both defensive wounds as well as clear evidence of having the crap beaten out of him. [QUOTE=RedFury] Your ignorance is showing. Or you are going to tell me there are no white Hispanics? In fact, depending on how far-reaching the term is, I know of almost no Spaniard who qualifies as anything other than"white" – now, fully agree, they are not a majority in most other Latin American countries such as Argentina, but sure enough a safe bet would place “pure white” Latin Americans at least at a 15/20% rate overall. [/QUOTE] I know a hell of a lot more about it than you do, my, er, Spanish friend. The US isn’t Europe, and attitudes are different here than perhaps you are aware of, coming from such a civilized and cultured nation such as Spain. Here it’s all about appearance, and your own ignorance is showing , since even a cursory look at Zimmerman shows the guy is not a ‘pure white’ Latin American. Why it’s important for folks such as the OP to claim he’s ‘white’ is beyond me. Not that it really matters, as the facts of the case are what they are, but anyone trying to claim Zimmerman SPECIFICALLY is ‘white’ is reaching (and spinning). Put a bandana on his head and give him a low rider and he could be from my old neighborhood…or mixing it up in LA. > [@](#): > > That’s a lot of white “brown” people… There are quite a few of us scattered about you know. We appreciate the effort of your ancestors making that all possible, Red. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/162 "2012-06-13T01:19:16Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Aside from the bullet wound, however, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence of defensive wounds or other blows he received…which you’ve conveniently forgotten DO exist in the case of Zimmerman, who has both defensive wounds as well as clear evidence of having the crap beaten out of him… Then the question becomes at what point, and under what circumstance, did Martin find out that Zimmerman had a gun. Suppose you’re Martin, and crazy guy has a gun, and maybe he’s reaching for it…do you a) throw yourself upon him in hopes of preventing him from drawing said weapon or b) try to outrun a 9mm bullet? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/163 "2012-06-13T01:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Then the question becomes at what point, and under what circumstance, did Martin find out that Zimmerman had a gun. [/QUOTE] Well yeah…that is the $64,000 dollar question, no doubt. At a guess he probably found out when Zimmerman shot him, as I can’t see any sane person attacking someone with a gun, knowing the guy had a gun, beating the crap out of the guy with the gun, and not taking the gun away…but at this point, it’s all speculation and conjecture as there is only one person alive who KNOWS what happened. > [@](#): > > Suppose you’re Martin, and crazy guy has a gun, and maybe he’s reaching for it…do you a) throw yourself upon him in hopes of preventing him from drawing said weapon or b) try to outrun a 9mm bullet? If I had the guy down on the ground and was pounding his head into the pavement? I’d take the gun away, toss it to the side, or perhaps shoot him with it if I felt that threatened. Though, if I knew some dude had a gun I’d run away, especially if I was young enough TOO run away, which sadly I’m not anymore. It could have been as you say though…Martin was a young man, he might have seen Zimmerman reach for a gun (or a weapon), pounce, beat the crap out of him, and in the heat of the moment completely forget about the fact that Zimmerman was armed until Zimmerman managed to get far enough away to remind him of that fact. Like I said, we just don’t know, as only one person survived that witnessed what actually happened. ETA: The point being that it doesn’t take a racist to take EITHER stance wrt the conjecture and speculation about what happened, and in Bricker’s case we are taking about a guy who is a freaking lawyer, and a public defender (IIRC) in the past, and one who is looking at all of this from a strictly legalistic viewpoint. Claiming that he’s a racist based on this is despicable IMHO, and I’m a bit surprised and disappointed that the OP hasn’t gotten reamed for doing so, even by folks who Bricker annoys the fuck out of and who categorically disagree with his viewpoint and stance. I’d do that for you, 'luci, if some right wing idiot claimed you were a racist or some other nonsense. I’d do it for Red as well, and most of the other posters in this thread. Hell, I HAVE done it, even defending Der Trihs when he’s wrongfully accused of something. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/164 "2012-06-13T01:43:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > If I had the guy down on the ground and was pounding his head into the pavement? Can we put this to bed? The EMT report contradicts Zimmerman’s claim that this ever happened. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/165 "2012-06-13T02:00:11Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Aside from the bullet wound, however, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence of defensive wounds or other blows he received…which you’ve conveniently forgotten DO exist in the case of Zimmerman, who has both defensive wounds as well as clear evidence of having the crap beaten out of him. > > I know a hell of a lot more about it than you do, my, er, Spanish friend. The US isn’t Europe, and attitudes are different here than perhaps you are aware of, coming from such a civilized and cultured nation such as Spain. Here it’s all about appearance, and your own ignorance is showing , since even a cursory look at Zimmerman shows the guy is not a ‘pure white’ Latin American. Why it’s important for folks such as the OP to claim he’s ‘white’ is beyond me. Not that it really matters, as the facts of the case are what they are, but anyone trying to claim Zimmerman SPECIFICALLY is ‘white’ is reaching (and spinning). Put a bandana on his head and give him a low rider and he could be from my old neighborhood…or mixing it up in LA. > > There are quite a few of us scattered about you know. We appreciate the effort of your ancestors making that all possible, Red. 😛 > > -XT Exactly how does “cursory glance” at Zimmerman determine that he wasn’t a “pure white” Latin American? In my experience most Columbian and Peruvian immigrants consider themselves “white” or “Blancos”. What makes you think Zimmerman’s mother didn’t consider herself a Blanca? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/166 "2012-06-13T02:27:00Z")
[QUOTE=Ibn Warraq] Exactly how does “cursory glance” at Zimmerman determine that he wasn’t a “pure white” Latin American? [/QUOTE] Um…because he doesn’t [look](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://a.abcnews.com/images/News/gty_george_zimmerman_jef_120412_wg.jpg&imgrefurl=http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id%3D16353532&h=360&w=640&sz=47&tbnid=EQfPnW5syUV4sM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=160&zoom=1&usg=__gGsw5CET5_dNEiCZ9YDP-338hWs=&docid=3qFbpyXhPKKdRM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yfjXT42EJ-fG6AGf84itAw&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQ9QEwAg&dur=279) ‘white’? Or, let me put this another way…what kind of ‘white’ guy does he look like to you? Nordic? French? Possibly German? Eastern European? Southern European? > [@](#): > > In my experience most Columbian and Peruvian immigrants consider themselves “white” or “Blancos”. They can consider themselves whatever they like. If they come to the US and look like hispanics, then they are going to be considered hispanic. Just like if someone with asian features comes here they are going to be considered asian, or someone with dark skin is going to be considered black. In MY experience he looks like a chicano, and most Americans are going to see him that way, since that’s how Americans filter things…on looks. > [@](#): > > What makes you think Zimmerman’s mother didn’t consider herself a Blanca? The fact that I don’t care what his mother considered herself or didn’t consider herself to be? Sorry, but seriously, wtf are you on about? You figure that most Americans are going to say ‘well, you look hispanic, but what did your mother think you were?’ Obama’s got mixed parentage…his mother IS ‘white’. But he doesn’t look ‘white’ so he’s not going to be considered 'white on first glance by most Americans, even if he stands on the roof tops and proclaims his whiteness at the top of his lungs. -XT ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/167 "2012-06-13T02:29:30Z")
If you look at previous arrest records and the initial police report for the shooting, you’ll see that the cops identify him as white. What is obvious to one person is obviously not obvious to another. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/168 "2012-06-13T02:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Can we put this to bed? The EMT report contradicts Zimmerman’s claim that this ever happened. [/QUOTE] I don’t know…can you? I’ve seen http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-bloody-photos-details-more-of-george-zimmermans-injuries/ that pretty clearly show the marks of a pretty good beating both on the back of his head and defensive wounds on his arms and hands. What do you have? -XT ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/169 "2012-06-13T02:30:09Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > The police did what they tend to do when confronted with a scene of carnage and a body - arrest all parties so that no-one can do a runner, and then work out what happened. By all account the Wangs were released within hours, and in protective custody soon after. CPS at no time raised charges against the Wangs. Not sure how you can say this is protecting home invaders? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think the police in the US are likely to arrest you if you’ve killed an unrelated person in your own home, while you and your family members show signs of injuries, and the house shows signs of forced entry. Again, maybe I’m wrong. It doesn’t come up much for me. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/170 "2012-06-13T02:38:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > …Claiming that he’s a racist based on this is despicable IMHO… > -XT Yes, _your_ opinion. In MY opinion, Bricker’s background, combined with his stance on this case, is fairly good circumstantial evidence for racism. He’s a lawyer, so he knows VERY WELL the death penalty is unequally applied, and its application has largely to do with the quality of the killer’s legal counsel, the victim’s race, and the victim’s gender…and yet he STILL seems untroubled by the fact that the DA didn’t bother to press charges. Bricker is SERIOUS about the letter of the law, to the exclusion of other factors. This means he most LIKELY doesn’t have any real problems with how the law is applied unequally. And the law is pretty unequal, if you’re a minority with no money. I also made another post in this very thread about all this. Feel free to look for it, or I can link it, if you don’t have the time. So yeah, I think Bricker is somewhat of a racist. Not as bad as New Deal Democrat or his friends, but hey, everything’s a sliding scale. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/171 "2012-06-13T02:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=al27052] Yes, your opinion. [/QUOTE] The fact that you haven’t been reamed out for this ridiculous assertion is a quirk of the board…many folks are on your ‘side’ in that they believe what you do wrt the overall Zimmerman case. However, have you noticed that even though you haven’t been reamed out that not a lot of folks are agreeing with you that Bricker is a racist? So, it’s not JUST my opinion. > [@](#): > > n MY opinion, Bricker’s background, combined with his stance on this case, is fairly good circumstantial evidence for racism. Yes, but your opinion is obviously not worth shit…and your judgement sucks donkey dick. > [@](#): > > He’s a lawyer, so he knows VERY WELL the death penalty is unequally applied, and its application has largely to do with the quality of the killer’s legal counsel, the victim’s race, and the victim’s gender…and yet he STILL seems untroubled by the fact that the DA didn’t bother to press charges. Probably because HE DOESN’T AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE FACTS YOU FUCKING IDIOT! That doesn’t make him a racist, it means you have a difference of opinion. Gods, you are a fucking moron. > [@](#): > > Bricker is SERIOUS about the letter of the law, to the exclusion of other factors. This means he most LIKELY doesn’t have any real problems with how the law is applied unequally. And the law is pretty unequal, if you’re a minority with no money. The law is the law. He’s a lawyer. All the rest of your little rant here is horseshit and pure speculative horseshit on your part in attempting to fill in his motives and feelings. You are projecting, and doing so in a totally offensive and dickish manner. > [@](#): > > I also made another post in this very thread about all this. Feel free to look for it, or I can link it, if you don’t have the time. Do so, if you feel it helps your, um, case here. Thus far I’ve seen zero evidence from you to back up your assertion that Bricker is a racist…and I’ve ‘known’ him for years, in which time I’ve never, not once, gotten any sort of racist vibe from him. You on the other hand I don’t know at all before this thread, and the fact that you are making baseless accusations out of your ass is not making my own bunny jump, wrt your own veracity. > [@](#): > > So yeah, I think Bricker is somewhat of a racist. Not as bad as New Deal Democrat or his friends, but hey, everything’s a sliding scale. Now, had you claimed that NDD is a racist I’d have been with you all the way. I haven’t joined in the Pit thread about him, merely because he’s being roasted fine without my assistance. Have you noticed any different between this thread and that one, though? It’s not exactly subtle… -XT ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/172 "2012-06-13T03:08:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The fact that you haven’t been reamed out for this ridiculous assertion is a quirk of the board… How many people have to call the OP an “idiot” (and other choice words) how many times, before you consider him to have been reamed? Remember, he began his lame OP calling ALL the “Zimmerman-lovers” “racist bitches.” While Bricker was the only one (I think) he mentioned by name, he actually went lighter on him by calling him “at least … a calm, measured bigot.” I think most people have abandoned the thread, having seen the lameness of its premise, and the redundancy of yet another Zimmerman/Martin thread. Also, DNFTT and all that. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/173 "2012-06-13T03:13:43Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > …I think most people have abandoned the thread… Certainly a few still seem to be posting. No one of consequence, though. Heh ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/174 "2012-06-13T03:18:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Now, had you claimed that NDD is a racist I’d have been with you all the way. I haven’t joined in the Pit thread about him, merely because he’s being roasted fine without my assistance. Have you noticed any different between this thread and that one, though? It’s not exactly subtle… > > -XT I never thought about the fact that there might be racists who, because they don’t make the KKK look like the NAACP, don’t realize they are racists…or don’t think their beliefs quality as racist. But I guess there are some. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/175 "2012-06-13T03:32:41Z")
I predict a short stay at this board for our [del]esteemed[/del] troll of an OP. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/176 "2012-06-13T03:37:21Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I predict a short stay at this board for our [del]esteemed[/del] troll of an OP. With people like YOU around, why would anyone who DIDN’T have tremendous patience stay? Seriously, I’m asking. The conservatives are ruining the country. We had 8 years of a gun-totin’ cowboy as Cheney’s sock-puppet POTUS. They ran up a deficit that hasn’t been seen since the days of, oh. REAGAN, yet another cowboy with a gun. What is the obsession with guns? Where is the good in turning a suburban neighborhood into a live-action shooting video game, in which real people die? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/177 "2012-06-13T04:11:57Z")
Seriously, you’re not asking. You are making _political_ assumptions about people who merely called you a troll? :dubious: Yep, definite troll. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/178 "2012-06-13T04:18:20Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Seriously, you’re not asking. You are making _political_ assumptions about people who merely called you a troll? Do you want me to start digging through people’s old posts to prove my point? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/179 "2012-06-13T06:18:34Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Do you want me to start digging through people’s old posts to prove my point? By all means, but first, you might want to state what that point is, eh? Especially when the point seems to be just to troll. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470/180 "2012-06-13T09:50:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin? Huh? Well, let see now. We have reliable testimony that he was alive before. Video tape at the Qwik E Mart, for instance. Reliable testimony from the coroner that he is, in fact, dead. Bullet hole. Gun matching bullet hole in Zimmerman’s immediate possession. More? Yes. Something that is evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin. You are aware, I assume, that it is entirely possible to shoot someone without attacking them, and that is precisely what Zimmerman claims happened in this case. Perhaps you should start by looking up the words “attack” and “defend”, and attempting to comprehend the difference. Then, come back and show some evidence that it was an attack, and not self defence. You won’t, of course, because if such evidence exists, it’s not in the public domain, and by the looks of things won’t be released for some time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-you-zimmerman-lovers-in-the-great-debates-thread-are/624470.md?page=10)