# Alleged James Foley "beheading" video is so incredibly fake. How is anyone buying this bullshit? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2014, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069 "2014-08-21T07:59:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/201 "2014-08-23T11:11:12Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I think the video is real, just that Foley was actually killed OFF-camera. Everyone’s been commenting on the high production value of the video. It’s “producers” probably knew the high gore factor of an actual beheading would ensure the video not being widely distributed. So they simulated it just for the camera. This was also my interpretation originally, before I got taken in by the OP. It wouldn’t be the first fake video–remember that doll? I will defer to US Government if they say it’s real, as they are the experts. I just initially thought it wasn’t, mostly due to the fadeout, which is very old camera trick for implying you did something you didn’t. If the U.S. government says it’s real, fine. I’m not an expert, and I’ll defer to them. I just And, yes, **Miller** , even if the video were faked, I’d still think he’s really dead. It makes no sense to release a video of a guy dying but keep him alive, as people would eventually found out. It was just false optimism that had me hoping that the video was made by someone else, and that the guy was still alive. In that, I was just being an idiot. It happens more often than I would like. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/202 "2014-08-23T11:14:06Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Not that I _really_ care, but it’s probably easier for you only. I had to Google it (I found the answer in a thread you started). It’s not like it’s a huge problem, but there is a bit of a trend to use “made up” initialisms that force you to work them out, or Google them, on this board, which doesn’t exactly improve communication, which I assume is the purpose of posting in the first place. > > ETA: It means “Whacked-Out Nut-Job Conspiracy Theorist”, apparently. In that case, CT would be fine. The other part is implied. When has anyone ever called anyone a conspiracy theorist who they didn’t also think was a whacked-out nut job? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/203 "2014-08-23T14:19:51Z")
I’ve not seen any beheading video. None of them. Won’t do it. But if they WANT the USA to bomb the fuck out of them, beheading ANYONE is what they should continue to do. WTF. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/204 "2014-08-23T14:19:52Z")
Tine for some pedantry, methinks. I kind of wish people would stop throwing around the terms ‘real’ vs ‘fake’ because, in my view, they are inadequate to describe what’s being argued about here. I’ll go through what seems to be under discussion here, point by point; feel free to correct me if I’ve got anything wrong. 1. Is it Foley in the early part of the video? Apparently yes; I don’t think anyone here is seriously disputing that fact, so from that standpoint the video is ‘real’. 2. Was the video created by ISIS? Again, apparently yes, so real. 3. Was Foley killed on camera? Apparently not. If the act was indeed filmed it was edited out. So, for that strictly limited circumstance, not real. I would not, however, make too big an issue out of people colloquially calling this a beheading video just because every part of the killing wasn’t shown. 4. Is the beheaded corpse at the end Foley? There seems to be some disagreement, but the arguments that it is not are rather weak, i. e. that it appears to be a still image animated with a computer-generated pan rather than full motion (so what? Why would you need full motion for an image of a dead guy? It’s not like he’s going to get up and dance.) 5. Were the pre-killing and post-killing parts of the video recorded at roughly the same time? I’d say probably not, and for me this is the only point where the OP and his ilk might have some credibility. I lean toward the notion that the segment up to the knife being brought to Foley’s throat was taped at some date following the commencement of US air strikes in Iraq, that Foley was in fact killed just prior to the video being completed, and that a digital still of his body was spliced in after the fact. So, ‘real’ from the standpoint that it documents Foley’s ultimate fate, ‘fake’ in that it is not a real-time record. 6. Based on the video alone, can we assume that Foley is dead? Well yeah, as long as the corpse seen at the end is in fact Foley’s. If it isn’t for some reason, then we have to start coming up with plausible reasons why it wouldn’t be, and I don’t see any plausible reasons so far. A word about the production: ghastly as the notion may be, the supposedly high production values of the tape are nothing that could not be replicated by anyone with a couple of consumer-grade digital cameras, mounted on tripods, and a cheap PC-based editing program. Summary: the video is what most reasonable people would consider ‘real’, in that it a) features Foley himself; b) was made under the auspices of ISIS; c) apparently documents that Foley is dead. Whether or not it shows a murder in real-time is immaterial to the purpose of the video, nor should it affect the entirely justifiable revulsion over ISIS’s tactics. OK, hope this doesn’t disrupt the snarkfest to an unacceptable degree. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/205 "2014-08-23T15:39:02Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > I don’t know why everyone is so quick to dismiss this as more conspiratorial hogwash. Perhaps the actual execution was botched in some way, or Foley pulled some Fabrizio Quattrocchi type stunt. Foley’s own brother has suggested that James would have volunteered to be executed first (among the Americans), and with that type of courage, who knows what could have happened. This is more plausible than most here might think. According to two of the French hostages, Foley was very much a stand up dude, and would give up his own rations, blanket and other items to his fellow hostages. He also attempted to escape and actually got away, but was recaptured. Finally, he was beaten more often than the other hostages, and subject to more mock executions, because his brother is in the US Air Force in Afghanistan. Based on this last bit of information, I seriously doubt they would have ever released him alive. And I wonder if the reason the video goes to black isn’t that he didn’t start fighting back or yelling something anti-ISIS or whathaveyou. He was apparently a pretty tough, yet compassionate man. > **[Fellow hostage remembers Foley](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-28875926)** > > A French journalist, held hostage with James Foley for seven months, has been describing his time in captivity with the murdered journalist. > **[A French Journalist Gives Heartbreaking Details Of His Captivity With James...](https://www.businessinsider.com/nicolas-henin-details-captivity-with-james-foley-2014-8#ixzz3BEI1xcZy)** > > Foley was treated the worst, but was always looking to help his fellow hostages. It’s also important to note that both former hostages say that yes, this was him in the video and his behavior is NOT unusual. "The shoes that he was wearing when he was taken to this place in the desert, I wore them,” Henin said. “We had few shoes that we were using to go to the bathroom and we were sharing them.” Henin said Foley showed what he was made of in his final moments — kneeling in the desert with all hope gone. “That is someone, I mean, a real man,” Henin said. “Many people would’ve freaked out and (would have been) terrified because he knew very well what was going to happen to him. . . . But (he) was still standing up, looking forward and speaking with a clear voice.” > **[James Foley ‘never cracked’ amid ISIS brutality, says French fellow hostage...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/08/22/james-foley-never-cracked-amid-isis-brutality-says-french-fellow-hostage-who-partly-ids-killer/)** > > Before they cut off his head, they treated him like a whipping boy. James Foley — brave until the end — was subjected to beatings and psychological torture with mock executions before h… (Granted it’s NYDP, but it’s really just a transcript of what the former french hostage said on a Radio 1 Europe interview) Identifying shoes may seem silly to some, but when multiple people have to share one pair, I’d be willing to bet they do learn to recognize them immediately. In any case, it’s a positive ID from someone who just spent ten months in captivity with Foley and recognizes both the physical man and the behavior. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/206 "2014-08-23T16:35:31Z")
I’m happy that you agree that no beheading or killing to place in this video. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/207 "2014-08-23T16:38:28Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I’m happy that you agree that no beheading or killing to place in this video. Well, you’re certainly easy to please. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/208 "2014-08-23T17:21:35Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I’m happy that you agree that no beheading or killing to place in this video. Why does that make you happy? You haven’t explained exactly why this so meaningful to you. Now please explain your expert opinion on why the still image is faked, beyond “look at the elbow.” ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/209 "2014-08-23T17:30:59Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I haven’t been on the boards in a while - forgot what whimpering pussies most of you guys are. I…I…I think we’ve all just been called mewling quim. The nerve! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/210 "2014-08-23T18:45:42Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I’m happy that you agree that no beheading or killing to place in this video. Congratulations on winning a narrow and irrelevant point that was not in dispute. Your intellectual gifts are without equal and I’m eager to see what other surprises you have in store for us. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/211 "2014-08-23T19:01:19Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I’m happy that you agree that no beheading or killing to place in this video. Err… if you’re writing to me, I didn’t say anything of the kind. They may very well have been in the process of killing him and he started to fight back at some point, so they edited that out in post-production for their own propaganda reasons. By example, it doesn’t make ISIS/ISIL look nearly as good if it takes three or five men to hold him down and saw his head off, some of whom may not be wearing headscarves or have their identity concealed. The only people who know for sure aren’t giving testimony at this time. At least one person claiming medical training has made the point (on another board with the same debate) that there need not be a lot of blood if you cut through the trachea until you hit the carotid artery, AND it’s also possible that the blood would go down the severed trachea as opposed to coming out of the wound externally, at least at first. I do note that in the video the man starts his sawing motion at the very front of the throat up under the chin, and the major arteries are to the side of the neck, not the very front. To be fair, I am not a medically trained professional, however, neither (apparently) are you. Me, I think it’s absolutely real. I think there may be other actions that we do not see which occurred after the video went black to complete the murder of Mr. Foley. But that doesn’t mean this video is real. It just means that the truly voyeuristic among us will have to find other murder porn to entertain themselves. I’m sure they already know where to look though. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/212 "2014-08-23T19:10:42Z")
“But that doesn’t mean this video is real.” should read: But that doesn’t mean this video\*\* ISN’T \*\*real. I needs to learn to types mo’better. -B- ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/213 "2014-08-24T00:21:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Why does that make you happy? You haven’t explained exactly why this so meaningful to you. > > Now please explain your expert opinion on why the still image is faked, beyond “look at the elbow.” It isn’t meaningful to me, but is it meaningful to you that it’s meaningful to me? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/214 "2014-08-24T00:26:48Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It isn’t meaningful to me, but is it meaningful to you that it’s meaningful to me? 😃 If it isn’t meaningful to you, you’re admitting to trolling, so yes, I guess it is of interest to me. Are you sure you want to go there?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/215 "2014-08-24T00:43:22Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It isn’t meaningful to me Then why would it make you happy? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/216 "2014-08-24T14:31:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If it isn’t meaningful to you, you’re admitting to trolling, so yes, I guess it is of interest to me. Are you sure you want to go there?:dubious: Looking at what you have posted, one could infer that you are trolling. Most of what you posted is not advancing the topic. Which is why this topic should probably be in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/217 "2014-08-24T14:32:36Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Then why would it make you happy? > > 😕 Yes, you are confused if you think it would make me happy. This is the kind of thing that happens when you draw conclusions based on little or no information. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/218 "2014-08-24T14:35:42Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Err… if you’re writing to me, I didn’t say anything of the kind. They may very well have been in the process of killing him and he started to fight back at some point, so they edited that out in post-production for their own propaganda reasons. By example, it doesn’t make ISIS/ISIL look nearly as good if it takes three or five men to hold him down and saw his head off, some of whom may not be wearing headscarves or have their identity concealed. > > The only people who know for sure aren’t giving testimony at this time. At least one person claiming medical training has made the point (on another board with the same debate) that there need not be a lot of blood if you cut through the trachea until you hit the carotid artery, AND it’s also possible that the blood would go down the severed trachea as opposed to coming out of the wound externally, at least at first. > > I do note that in the video the man starts his sawing motion at the very front of the throat up under the chin, and the major arteries are to the side of the neck, not the very front. To be fair, I am not a medically trained professional, however, neither (apparently) are you. > > Me, I think it’s absolutely real. I think there may be other actions that we do not see which occurred after the video went black to complete the murder of Mr. Foley. But that doesn’t mean this video is real. It just means that the truly voyeuristic among us will have to find other murder porn to entertain themselves. I’m sure they already know where to look though. > > Regards, > -Bouncer- Again, no beheading or killing takes place on the video in question. It looks like a reenactment or a dramatization and that’s where the question of “real” comes in. Real what??? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/219 "2014-08-24T14:50:31Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Yes, you are confused if you think it would make me happy. This is the kind of thing that happens when you draw conclusions based on little or no information. The information would seem to be sufficient: > [@EasyPhil](#): > > I’m happy that you agree that no beheading or killing to place in this video. > [@EasyPhil](#): > > Again, no beheading or killing takes place on the video in question. It looks like a reenactment or a dramatization and that’s where the question of “real” comes in. Real what??? Re-read the OP. The claim, implicit and explicit, is more than just that there is no killing depicted in the video. **Rigmarole** implies that reactions from the public should be quite different, if only they knew it was fake. If the claim was purely that Foley is not murdered in the video, why would any of that be relevant? What’s to get angry about? I don’t think it’s particularly interesting or surprising that these fools thought they were making a movie. They’re immature people playing dress up with guns. You just have to look at them to see that, despite the incredibly high stakes, they’re partially driven by the same thing that makes kids want to play soldier and feel like Rambo while they’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069/220 "2014-08-24T15:54:44Z")
Ta much, **Bozuit**. **EasyPhil** , you know that people can read your words, right? You said that you were happy people realized that there was not beheading in the video. Then you said you didn’t care. Which is it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alleged-james-foley-beheading-video-is-so-incredibly-fake-how-is-anyone-buying-this-bullshit/696069.md?page=12)