[QUOTE=enigm4tic]
in fact, I believe that may be why several of my friends ARE in the military…
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. 
One of my friends was a total handful in school (a lot of the teachers and administrators despised him… but some actually got along with him). He joined the Marines, and a couple of years later I could hardly recognize him (both physically and behavior-wise).
LilShieste
[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]
I’m a former elementary and middle school teacher, college teacher, and I have been a TA in grad courses. After any sort of tragedy like Columbine, the district counseling staff always alerted us to be alert for students who were having a particularly difficult time dealing with their emotions after the event, and to be aware of copycat threats. (Notice how many schools and universities have had bomb threats and the like over the past few weeks.) I imagine the teachers in the school were probably told something along the same lines.
I do agree that it’s a little odd that it took so long for the arrest if it was deemed to be that troubling, though.
[/QUOTE]
I think we’re pretty much in agreement, then. We just seem to disagree about the specific degree of ahem negative feedback that Mr. Lee’s essay should have earned him. Absent what I’d consider to be a credible threat, and no matter how disrespectful and disturbing the excerpts of the essay have been shown to be, I don’t think there is any credible threat there, arrest seems a bit much.
As for losing his contract with the Marines, I’m far less upset than some other posters in the thread: whether I think that the school district’s actions were appropriate, I agree that Mr. Lee was stupid to have turned in that essay - no matter what was promised - and the Eleventh Commandment is still as valid as it’s always been: Thou Shalt Not Be A Dumbfuck.
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
I hope the kid makes a fortune from this. He should publish it with a garish banner, “The work so shocking it led to his immediate arrest and the Marines considered him too violent for the Corps.”
[/QUOTE]
What ever happened to the good old days?:
*(From Alice’s Restaurant)
I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth.
Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL."
And I started jumpin up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL,” and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL.” And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, “You’re our boy.”*
Would you respect a teacher who had you arrested for following directions on your homework?
Many of them, like the school where my mom teaches, have students that use the current events to generate a few days off for themselves. They have no intention of bombing or shooting up the school, but they know that after a VTech type thing, even a vague threat will result in days off.
They knew exactly how to get what they wanted, and I’d venture that most of the threats that came within the days after VTech were of the wanting a day off variety.
[QUOTE=catsix]
Would you respect a teacher who had you arrested for following directions on your homework?
[/quote]
Well, that happened after the essay was turned in. Unless the student knew this was going to be the outcome, that doesn’t really jibe.
Furthermore, the teacher didn’t have him arrested. The teacher correctly informed her (I think it was a woman) department chair about the essay, and the chair informed the principal. The principal contacted the police and the police decided to arrest him. As I’ve said before, I can understand people being annoyed with the principal or the cops, but not with the teacher. She did what any competent teacher should have done - let her supervisor know. I would imagine districts have guidelines like this when students write about things like fantasizing about school shootings.
I think you’re right. I think most school officials would think you’re right as well, but it’s a chance an administrator would be a fool to take. Schools exist in a political and community context. If a threat is made at a school, and students, parents, teachers and/or the media learn about it, you’ve got a nice little mess on your hands. Why didn’t you inform the parents? Why didn’t you contact the authorities? And so forth. Granted, I taught before school shootings became such a prominent issue, but I can assure you that any principal or superintendent who did not take threats seriously would be out of a job pretty quickly. 99 percent of the time it’s nothing, and we expect nothing, but you never know. Again, nobody wants to be the principal who ignored a threat and something happened on your watch.
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
I hope the kid makes a fortune from this. He should publish it with a garish banner, “The work so shocking it led to his immediate arrest and the Marines considered him too violent for the Corps.”
[/QUOTE]
“Best debut since Richard McBeef!” - Violent Asshole Monthly.
Aren’t we talking about a high school senior in his last month before graduation? He’s guilty of poor judgment, but absent other evidence I wouldn’t interpret this as an attitude problem or an issue with the teacher.
They were ‘promised’ no judgement or censorship? Let’s face it, if you put it on paper, you might as well staple it to your ass. No disrespect toward the teacher intended, but that was a foolish promise to make, much less believe.
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
the Eleventh Commandment is still as valid as it’s always been: Thou Shalt Not Be A Dumbfuck.
[/QUOTE]
As is the Twelfth: Just because you can, that doesn’t mean you should.
[QUOTE=Miller]
There’s quite a bit of sunlight between “taken aback” and “arrested.”
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Enough sunlight to drive a mack truck through.
As I said, the arrest was absurd, but I do have to wonder what on earth Mr. Lee was thinking when he handed his essay in.
I’m not a lawyer. I’ve been an ACLU member long enough to doubt this travesty will result in a conviction. There are some daffy judges out there, but this case would be thrown out of most courts along with the judge’s Starbucks cup.
To me, the most absurd part was that the US Marine Corps decided he was too ferocious to be a Marine. :smack:
[QUOTE=alice_in_wonderland]
Indeed. Enough sunlight to drive a mack truck through.
As I said, the arrest was absurd, but I do have to wonder what on earth Mr. Lee was thinking when he handed his essay in.
[/QUOTE]
Probably putting to the test the teacher’s proclamation that they would not be censored. I can just see him thinking, “Hmm, no censorship, I wonder if she really means that. Only one way to find out.” Now some may think that is being an ass, but I actually think it is highly appropriate.
[QUOTE=Orbifold]
With all due respect, bull and shit. Mr. Lee was told “anything goes”. Mr. Lee was told “no judgement, no censorship”. Mr. Lee was lied to, and has now been charged by the state’s attorney for expressing himself as he was instructed.
He didn’t shout fire in a crowded theatre, and he didn’t libel anyone. The essay segment quoted doesn’t even threaten anyone, except for the people in his freakin’ dreams.
[/QUOTE]
He threatened to kill his teacher. That is not just crossing the line, that is leaping over it.
I’m so, so glad that I had well-humored teachers throughout school. In 2nd grade I wrote what turned out to be a second-grade version of Firestarter, by Stephen King (I’d never read the book at that point, although in fourth grade I did read IT, much to my teacher’s dismay). It was very violent.
The teacher did contact my parents, but just to give them a heads-up. When my parents questioned me I just shrugged and said something like “I write whatever comes to mind. Sometimes it’s bunnies and daisies, sometimes it’s catching people on fire.”
I’m just saying, I’m glad no one ever turned me in, because some of the shit I wrote for creative writing was a great deal more disturbing, and I’ve never even once entertained the idea of seriously killing someone.
~Tasha
[QUOTE=Frostillicus]
He threatened to kill his teacher. That is not just crossing the line, that is leaping over it.
[/QUOTE]
When did he threaten to kill his teacher?
LilShieste
[QUOTE=Frostillicus]
He threatened to kill his teacher. That is not just crossing the line, that is leaping over it.
[/QUOTE]
Any number of articles have said he did not threaten anyone specifically or even mention a school. I believe the police have confirmed that.
[QUOTE=LilShieste]
When did he threaten to kill his teacher?
LilShieste
[/QUOTE]
From **Eric Zorn’s ** column in the Trib:
[QUOTE=Eonwe]
What ever happened to the good old days?:
*(From Alice’s Restaurant)
I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth.
Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL."
And I started jumpin up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL,” and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL.” And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, “You’re our boy.”*
[/QUOTE]
“You wanta know if I’m moral enough to join the marines after writing a high school essay?”
Ai yai yai. Poor judgment on Allen’s part, deserving of a bad (maybe even a flunking) grade, and MAYBE a talk with his parents. But arrest? Rescinding of a military acceptance? For a violent flight of fancy with otherwise no corroborating evidence of planned violence? Are you kidding me?
Isn’t the military so desperate that they’re accepting more and more high school dropouts and convicted criminals? And they turn away a straight-A high school student who may have a problem with authority?
What up the fuck, man? I hope the ACLU reams 'em all on this one.
I see Eric Zorn is still an idiot. Anyway, did Harris, Klebold and Cho turn in essays about shooting up their schools before they did it? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, because it might have interfered with their plans to actually do those things. Meanwhile, we have to stamp out senioritis.