# allies **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 5, 2001, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605 "2001-11-05T14:59:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/1 "2001-11-05T14:59:17Z")
Who are America’s allies? How has this changed in the past? meaning I know Iran with the Shah used to be our allie, til he left. Who else used to be, but isn’t anymore? Who has the most allies? ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/2 "2001-11-05T15:22:14Z")
Ever heard of NATO? (Is it a sign of thestate of the world that I cannot connect to their site?) ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/3 "2001-11-05T15:25:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tc \* > \*\*Ever heard of NATO? > (Is it a sign of thestate of the world that I cannot connect to their site?) \*\* Ooops, screwed up the link, but not even [http://www.nato.int](http://www.nato.int) works from here… ---
**Author:** ![cmburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@cmburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmburns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/4 "2001-11-05T18:30:44Z")
Sudan used to be pro-American under Nimieri (sp?) until he was overthrown. They and Egypt formed a strong pro-Western alliance against Soviet backed Libya. Now Sudan is decidely anti-American. China was never an ally, but during the Cold War they distrusted the USSR more than they distrusted us, so for most situations they would take our side. With the collapse of the bipolar world, they are flexing their political and military muscle more and more for their own ends. North Yemen used to be at war with South Yemen, and depended on US support. Now that the countries are unified, I think Yemen as a whole has an anti-US bias. Obviously, the same could be said for Vietnam, although I think relations are warming up there. Certainly factions of Afghanistan, if not the country as a whole, could have been seen as allied with the US against the Soviet occupation. There’s no doubt a whole bunch more like that. Looking at the enemy to ally switch, if you go back far enough, the US has fought against Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Mexico, Canada, Japan and a whole host of other countries that are now allies or at least friendly. ---
**Author:** ![cmburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@cmburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmburns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/5 "2001-11-05T18:36:46Z")
Sudan used to be pro-American under Nimieri (sp?) until he was overthrown. They and Egypt formed a strong pro-Western alliance against Soviet backed Libya. Now Sudan is decidely anti-American. China was never an ally, but during the Cold War they distrusted the USSR more than they distrusted us, so for most situations they would take our side. With the collapse of the bipolar world, they are flexing their political and military muscle more and more for their own ends. North Yemen used to be at war with South Yemen, and depended on US support. Now that the countries are unified, I think Yemen as a whole has an anti-US bias. Obviously, the same could be said for Vietnam, although I think relations are warming up there. Certainly factions of Afghanistan, if not the country as a whole, could have been seen as allied with the US against the Soviet occupation. There’s no doubt a whole bunch more like that. Looking at the enemy to ally switch, if you go back far enough, the US has fought against Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Mexico, Canada, Japan and a whole host of other countries that are now allies, or at least friendly to us. For the most allies, the U.S. belongs to NATO as mentioned above, to the Organization of American States, to the ANZUS (Australia, New Zealand, US) pact, and has mutual defense treaties with several other countries, so it is probably us, but I have no factual cite on that. ---
**Author:** ![cmburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@cmburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmburns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/6 "2001-11-05T18:39:45Z")
Sorry for the double-post, preview was not my friend in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Jimbrowski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9a140/32.png) [@Jimbrowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimbrowski)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/7 "2001-11-05T22:44:18Z")
Definition of “allies”: “Two entities with their hands so deep in each others pockets they can’t successfully raid a third without each other’s permission.” Does that give you a better sense of who our allies are? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/8 "2001-11-06T00:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmburns \* > **China was never an ally, but during the Cold War they distrusted the USSR more than they distrusted us, so for most situations they would take our side. With the collapse of the bipolar world, they are flexing their political and military muscle more and more for their own ends.** Actually, China was an ally against the Japanese in WW2. Perhaps it is more fair to say that the US and KMT were allies. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/9 "2001-11-06T00:46:01Z")
Or… the Republic of China was a US ally, the People’s Republic of China isn’t. America’s oldest ally? Morocco was the first country to recognize the US and sign a treaty with it (the Treaty of Marakkech, 1787). They’re very proud of it, though it didn’t seem to deter the French and Spanish from colonizing them for most the 19th/20th centuries. Newest ally? Uzbekistan perhaps? Next ally? The new Afghan regime? Next ex-ally? Saudi? ---
**Author:** ![cmburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@cmburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmburns)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/10 "2001-11-06T01:26:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* Actually, China was an ally against the Japanese in WW2. Perhaps it is more fair to say that the US and KMT were allies. \*\* [/QUOTE] \*\* China Guy \*\* you’re right, I phrased that really poorly. I meant that the PRC wasn’t technically an ally during the Cold War but was friendlier towards the US than they are now, due to shared interests in containing USSR hegemony. Certainly China was a strong US ally in WWII. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/allies/91605/11 "2001-11-06T03:42:49Z")
As far as formal alliances go, i.e., agreements of the form “if you get hit, we get hit”– The [North Atlantic Treaty](http://www.nato.int/docu/basictxt/treaty.htm) (“Treaty of Washington”) states that > [@](#): > > The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. This treaty is currently in force between the United States and Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, and the United Kingdom. The [Security Treaty Between the United States, Australia, and New Zealand](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/intdip/usmulti/usmu002.htm) (“ANZUS Treaty”) declares that > [@](#): > > Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on any of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes. It originally applied between the United States and Australia and New Zealand. The U.S. suspended its defense obligations to New Zealand in the 1980’s after New Zealand began barring nuclear-armed vessels from its ports. The treaty remains in force between the U.S. and Australia. The [Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security Between Japan and the United States of America](http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/ref/1.html) declares that > [@](#): > > Each Party recognizes that an armed attack against either Party in the territories under the administration of Japan would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional provisions and processes. It also explicitly gives the U.S. the right to military bases in Japan. The [Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of Korea](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/korea/kor001.htm) (South Korea) states > [@](#): > > Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific area on either of the Parties in territories now under their respective administrative control, or hereafter recognized by one of the Parties as lawfully brought under the administrative control of the other, would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes. Just looking at the language in the U.S.-Japan and U.S.-South Korea treaties, it seems that the U.S. is agreeing to defend Japan, but not _vice versa_–Japan’s American-written pacifist constitution renounces war–whereas if Hawaii or Guam or (I suppose) California were invaded by the Martians, South Korea ought to come to our aid in accordance with their treaty with us. The [Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance](http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/othr/index.cfm?docid=4369) (“Rio Treaty”) declares that > [@](#): > > The High Contracting Parties agree that an armed attack by any State against an American State shall be considered as an attack against all the American States and, consequently, each one of the said Contracting Parties undertakes to assist in meeting the attack in the exercise of the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations. [Parties to the Rio Treaty](http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01092019.htm) include the U.S. and Argentina, the Bahamas, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, Uruguay, and Venezuela; Cuba is a party to the treaty but has been has been suspended from the Organization of American States since 1962–exactly how that would affect the other Rio Treaty parties’ obligations to Cuba I don’t know, since technicnally being an OAS member and being a party to the Rio Treaty are not the same thing. You also have to take this entire treaty with something of a grain of salt, since IIRC we were mining Nicaragua’s harbors back during the 1980’s.