# Alligator drags away 2-year-old boy in Florida **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403 "2016-06-15T06:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/121 "2016-06-16T12:03:03Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > Not necessarily. If you believe the Bible, God destroyed the entire city, not just those he perceived had sinned. So god killed them all, then let himself sort them out. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/122 "2016-06-16T12:07:50Z")
Let’s drop the “Is God killing Orlando” hijack. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/123 "2016-06-16T12:18:06Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > **muldoontheif** This is coming very close to wishing harm on another poster or their children. Cut it out. My apologies. For the record, I would never wish harm on someone’s children because of how I feel about them. > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Don’t bother watching he video - it is just law enforcement basically saying, “we’re looking for the kid’s body.” > > Reading the article it says, among other things: > > 1. In Florida, a property owner owes two duties to an invitee: (1) the duty to use reasonable care in maintaining the property in a reasonably safe condition, and; (2) the duty to warn of latent or concealed dangers which (a) should be known to the owner and (b) are unknown to the invitee and (c) cannot be discovered through the exercise of due care. > > 2. for example, suppose a resort had a known infestation of fire ants, and failed to call pest control. Suppose also that patrons checking in and out of the hotel were not warned **and had no reason to know** that the hotel is in fire ant territory. > > 3. courts in Florida have held that a swimmer’s **disregard of “No Swimming” and other warning signs** were the sole cause of the serious injuries. > > I’m not now, nor have I ever been saying that this isn’t tragic. Nor am I saying that if I were placed in the same situation I would be all like, “Ugh, I fucked up… well kids are easy to come by.” > > What I am saying is that if I am taking my kids someplace I’m unfamiliar with I’m going to check into the dangers posed by where we are going. Failure to do that is irresponsible. Due diligence and all of that. > > A simple google search would have pointed out the threat of alligators if you are going to Florida. > > Asking the staff, “Why no swimming in your purpose built non-natural lake” would have elicited a response (bullshit or not) that amounted to “The water is not safe to be in.” > > The parents chose to rules lawyer and let their kid into the water despite the “no swimming” sign and they got burned in a way I wouldn’t wish on **MuldoonThief** but they made the choice. > > If I see a “no swimming” sign I don’t let my kids in the water despite our lack of alligators - here it is swimmer’s itch, currents or pollution that cause the signs. I don’t expect a tourist to know the specific dangers but I expect them to know that “No swimming” means stay the fuck out the water. > > The parents chose to ignore a pretty clear warning and skirt the rules and their child paid for it. > > To me the parents don’t matter. To me it is the idea of what that kid’s last couple of minutes must have been like and the fact that the kid was robbed of 70 or so years of life that matters. > > And that is the fault of the parents. If I’m going camping in the Adirondacks with my kids, I would absolutely research the wildlife present there and the dangers they would pose. But if I’m taking my kids to see “Wicked” in NYC, I wouldn’t bother researching the wildlife of New York state, because I would quite reasonably assume I wouldn’t come into contact with them. And I think a trip to Walt Disney World, the “Happiest place on Earth”, whose entire reason for existence is to catering to children, and where I’ll be staying at their most exclusive $600/night hotel is much more similar to a trip to NYC than a camping trip in the mountains. If they weren’t planning on leaving Disney property at all (which is true for a huge proportion of visitors there), then why research the wildlife of the state? And I think that for a man-made beach on a man-made lake, a No Swimming sign doesn’t necessarily mean “stay at least 10 ft. from the water at all times”. It could mean the sand turns to nasty muck a few feet out, it could mean there’s no lifeguard, it could mean the lake gets a lot of boat traffic. If they really didn’t want people to dip their toes in the lake, then that’s what the sign should have said. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/124 "2016-06-16T12:26:35Z")
I’ve actually been places where in addition to “no swimming” the sign also says “no wading”. Really, if what was meant was stay the \*\*\*\* out of the water that’s what should have been posted. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/125 "2016-06-16T12:37:34Z")
It was a tragic mistake. Parents make tragic mistakes. Not all tragic mistakes amount to criminal negligence. Florida might be home to gators, but most people who live outside Florida would probably assume that they’re confined to the Everglades and the deep swamps of the South. Although people who grew up in the Gulf Coast might know better, the last place a traveler would expect to find them is at a man-made lake or pond. It wasn’t until I moved to Central Florida that I realized just how ubiquitous the creatures are. It’s not at all uncommon to see them roaming around through subdivisions, going from shallow pond to shallow pond – and occasionally even into someone’s swimming pool. But most people outside of Florida wouldn’t know that. You can criticize the parents, but if anyone should know of the dangers of alligators, it’s Disney, and they really should know that creating a lake with sand is an invitation to swim, signs or not. If they don’t want people swimming, they need to make it harder to access the water. Did they rope the area off at least? Seems like they didn’t. I don’t know if this is going to be a record-setting lawsuit but I suspect they will settle out of court. Disney probably just wants this to go away, so I doubt it would make sense to fight grieving parents tooth and nail over this. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/126 "2016-06-16T12:40:03Z")
A question and an observation: -Was the kid actually in the water? The article in this a.m.'s paper said nonne of the family were in the water. -Same article said the family was in that location to watch a movie shown by the resort. And the resort provided lifeguards. If the resort encoraged guests to be in that location, and if the lifeguards didn’t say/do anything about the kid if he was wading, I would think that would look bad for Disney. Given the extent to which Disney controls EVERY aspect of the experience at their resorts, and their efforts to market a safe, family friendly environment, I’d think it reasonable that they should have taken greater steps to either warn and/or make safe. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/127 "2016-06-16T12:43:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > You can criticize the parents, but if anyone should know of the dangers of alligators, it’s Disney, and they really should know that creating a lake with sand is an invitation to swim, signs or not. If they don’t want people swimming, they need to make it harder to access the water. Did they rope the area off at least? Seems like they didn’t. Rope off the beach? No. It’s _designed_ for the use of hotel guests. Here’s a [google image search](https://www.google.com/search?q=grand+floridian+beach&espv=2&biw=1519&bih=776&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJytyTyazNAhUCHGMKHeeaBNYQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=OQpxHfdO1tRojM%3A) - it’s got beach chairs and cabanas and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/128 "2016-06-16T12:47:10Z")
I don’t blame the parents - gators move fast. But I don’t blame Disney either. Gators are a risk in Florida. Disney is fifty square miles of former swamp - much of it undeveloped. Bay Lake (that lake) is not man made, its a natural lake (Disney did some dredging and such). Most of the shoreline of Bay Lake is [url=https://www.google.com/maps/@28.4166994,-81.5750269,3937m/data=!3m1!1e3] undeveloped - the Grand Floridian is the cluster of buildings to the SouthWest of the Magic Kingdom - you can poke around to see the canals and how undeveloped much of it is. Disney is actually rather proud of keeping some of the property undeveloped. They think its good environmentally or something. Its a tragedy, but Disney has been operating on Bay Lake for 50 years, and this is the first time an alligator has attacked (there has been some territorial behavior before - those animals are captured and euthanized as I understand it). Millions of people have played along those Bay Lake beaches in the past fifty years. The no swimming signs and lack of swimming appeared the same time as Florida had several cases of brain eating amoeba. River Country - the original waterpark that was on Bay Lake also closed during that time. By the way, Disney also runs Castaway Cay - the private cruise ship island. They have a huge bay - with a snorkel area. There are shark nets, but sometimes sharks or - very often - barracuda in the water. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/129 "2016-06-16T12:48:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > A question and an observation: > -Was the kid actually in the water? The article in this a.m.'s paper said nonne of the family were in the water. > -Same article said the family was in that location to watch a movie shown by the resort. And the resort provided lifeguards. If the resort encoraged guests to be in that location, and if the lifeguards didn’t say/do anything about the kid if he was wading, I would think that would look bad for Disney. > Given the extent to which Disney controls EVERY aspect of the experience at their resorts, and their efforts to market a safe, family friendly environment, I’d think it reasonable that they should have taken greater steps to either warn and/or make safe. There are no lifeguards at the beach. They are at the pools. Disney does do movies on the beach - or did - they probably won’t any longer and will move them to the pools. Its hard to see gators in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/130 "2016-06-16T12:59:09Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Damn. You’d think if Disney is fully aware gators are in the lakes to the point where they have to rehome them, they wouldn’t build artificial beaches for the use of hotel guests right on those same lakes. I spent most of last week at Disney World- actually, we stayed in the Polynesian, just right down the beach from where this happened. We actually left the day before this happened. The beach is very pretty- white sand, beach chairs- and I remember commenting to my wife about how much of a shame it was that they didn’t allow swimming, because that beach was pretty much unused. It honestly didn’t occur to either of us that the reason swimming wasn’t allowed was because of alligators. Sure, there were signs that prohibited swimming, but no reason was given. There was certainly no mention of alligators. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/131 "2016-06-16T13:01:16Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > (there has been some territorial behavior before - those animals are captured and euthanized as I understand it). There have been a few posters mentioning nuisance alligators being _euthanized_. This is not true, IMO. The are actually _killed_, or _destroyed_. [QUOTE=Merriam-Webster] Full Definition of euthanasia : the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/132 "2016-06-16T13:06:00Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There have been a few posters mentioning nuisance alligators being _euthanized_. This is not true, IMO. The are actually _killed_, or _destroyed_. “Euthanized” is actually coming from the news reports, though I agree it’s a euphemism for “bullet to the brain then gutted.” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/133 "2016-06-16T13:27:26Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > “Euthanized” is actually coming from the news reports, though I agree it’s a euphemism for “bullet to the brain then gutted.” Well, the news reports are demonstrably incorrect. Euthanasia is a thing. What’s being done to the alligators is not that particular thing. That said, go to town and kill all the alligators you want, that’s not my objection here. Let’s just not sully the term “euthanasia”. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/134 "2016-06-16T13:44:07Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I don’t blame the parents - gators move fast. But I don’t blame Disney either. Gators are a risk in Florida. Disney is fifty square miles of former swamp - much of it undeveloped. Bay Lake (that lake) is not man made, its a natural lake (Disney did some dredging and such). Most of the shoreline of Bay Lake is [undeveloped - the Grand Floridian is the cluster of buildings to the SouthWest of the Magic Kingdom - you can poke around to see the canals and how undeveloped much of it is. Disney is actually rather proud of keeping some of the property undeveloped. They think its good environmentally or something. Actually, according to [url=[Google Maps](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Walt+Disney+World+Resort/@28.4118816,-81.5861579,2916m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88dd7ee634caa5f7:0xa71e391fd01cf1a0!8m2!3d28.385233!4d-81.563874)]google maps]([Google Maps](https://www.google.com/maps/@28.4166994,-81.5750269,3937m/data=!3m1!1e3)) and Disney the body of water Magic Kingdom and the hotels are on is the Seven Seas Lagoon, which has a narrow connection to Bay Lake. I have no idea what the original appearance of the area was before Walt moved in, but the shoreline of the Lagoon is almost completely developed and controlled. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/135 "2016-06-16T13:47:01Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > There are no lifeguards at the beach. They are at the pools. Thanks. I thought I remembered mention of lifeguards in some of the news reports I read. If I were a plaintiff’s lawyer (which - thank god - I’m not!) I would find very attractive the fact that Disney encouraged folk to be in this area, provided arguably insufficient warning of potential dangers they knew of, and despite their resources did not take certain steps - netting/regular patrols/removal efforts - to prevent such a reasonably foreseeable event. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/136 "2016-06-16T14:19:26Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > I’m starting to think that Florida is North America’s Australia. Everything down there wants to eat you. I posted exactly that on FB last night. > [@Mince](#): > > If it is possible that alligators are in a body of water accessible to the public, you _need_ to scare them, or at least inform them of the dangers beyond a “No Swimming” sign, which, in this case, is ridiculously ambiguous. What kind of warning sign do you think will be in place at this lake now? Here “no swimming” means exactly that. I expect Disney has sufficient funds to buy a dictionary. How about “stay 2’ feet from shoreline”, “alligators may be in the area”, “no wading”? And I am not even a poet. I would have certainly NOT expected dangerous animals in a man-made lagoon at a $400/night hotels that caters specifically to families with little children. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/137 "2016-06-16T14:20:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Thanks. I thought I remembered mention of lifeguards in some of the news reports I read. There’s a pool right next to the beach. It could be the pool lifeguards are the ones being referred to - they’re likely to have been the Disney employees closest to the beach anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/138 "2016-06-16T14:48:06Z")
I haven’t read thru the whole thread, but I’m a little surprised that a body was found. I would have expected the gator would have made short work of a toddler, with the only ‘remains’ being some pieces of clothing. ---
**Author:** ![HowSoonIsThen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@HowSoonIsThen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowSoonIsThen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/139 "2016-06-16T15:41:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There have been a few posters mentioning nuisance alligators being _euthanized_. This is not true, IMO. The are actually _killed_, or _destroyed_. Ah, I absolutely hate when it’s reported that an animal was “destroyed”. Makes it feel like I’m in an 80s/90s kids cartoon where the villains aren’t allowed to say “kill”. And yeah: tragic, I feel so bad for the kid and his parents (and his siblings), “No Swimming” isn’t enough. I don’t really have any thoughts that haven’t been expressed in the last three pages. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403/140 "2016-06-16T15:57:49Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Actually, according to [google maps](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Walt+Disney+World+Resort/@28.4118816,-81.5861579,2916m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88dd7ee634caa5f7:0xa71e391fd01cf1a0!8m2!3d28.385233!4d-81.563874) and Disney the body of water Magic Kingdom and the hotels are on is the Seven Seas Lagoon, which has a narrow connection to Bay Lake. I have no idea what the original appearance of the area was before Walt moved in, but the shoreline of the Lagoon is almost completely developed and controlled. Well, its a little strange. Bay Lake is natural. Seven Seas Lagoon is connected to it by a canal about the width of the contemporary. There is a tunnel for the road underneath it. The canal is heavily used by boats that bring guests from the Wilderness Lodge, Fort Wilderness and the Contemporary Resort (which is more on the Bay Lake side than the Seven Seas Lagoon side). Also, Disney rents small boats to guests that travel the canal. If boats can cross, gators can cross. Seven Seas Lagoon is man made, but it wasn’t land before Disney got their hands on it - it was swamp. It was dredged and that is what the Magic Kingdom sits on. I’ve seen gators at the waters edge by that canal between the Grand Floridian and the Magic Kingdom The shoreline of the Seven Seas lagoon is only about half developed and controlled. That area between the MK monorail stop and the Grand Floridian is landscaped, but not populated with people (I think its fenced off). That weird red paved area is the bus stops - and from there to the TTC is not accessible to guests (again, some groundskeeping happens). The area between the Poly and the Grand Floridian is longer than it looks - thats the wedding chapel and luau building - that area isn’t populated except for weddings and the luau - its kept groomed for wedding pictures - and is often roped off. Bay Lake has Fort Wilderness and the Wilderness Lodge and the Contemporary on it, but most of the shore of Bay Lake is wild. Disney has watersports on the lake, and has for years. Its strange to me being a Minnesotan, where your biggest risk in the water is stepping on a dead bullhead, but it isn’t unusual in Florida to swim where there are gators. Walluka Springs has a lovely swimming hole - which often has dozens of alligators sunning themselves about a hundred feet away. They DO have a beware of alligators sign - but attacks are rare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alligator-drags-away-2-year-old-boy-in-florida/757403.md?page=8)