# Almost 40% of Americans support attacking Iraq \*even without Congressional support\*! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908 "2002-09-27T18:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/41 "2002-09-28T03:16:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DasUnterMensch \* > \*\*Pardon the drift… > > Oh stopit! > > I would remind you that the MEN & WOMEN of the uniformed services are volunteers and a very patriotic lot the are. I don’t have a site but my > best estimate tells me they are probably about 90% in favor of going into Iraq without even Bushs’ support. Which I guess make them part of the > “war mongering, propaganda believing assholes” of which you so fondly speak. > > Nothing chaps my chinchilla worse than some commierad asshole suddenly finding concern for our MEN & WOMEN in the military. So spare us your crocodile tears cainxinth. If this was 1968 you and yours would be standing in line at the airport to spit on those “boys and girls”. > > I have no doubt that when we do go to war with Iraq, the left will be rooting for Sadams bunch to kill as many of our solders as they can just in the hope of making the C in C look bad. > > God you your hypocrisy make me sick! :mad: > > Mensch \*\* Mensche, now there’s a misnomer If I ever heard one. If those patriots are willing to blindly walk into battle without fully understanding the reasons for it they are exactly what I called the respondents to the last question on that poll. Patriotism is all well and good, except when it’s misplaced. You know what we call unpatriotic Nazis? Heros. And don’t go making assumptions about me. I happen to believe in the US’s justifications for entering Viet Nam, and if called for duty I would gladly serve my country. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/42 "2002-09-28T03:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > The bottom line though is that if Kuwait wasn’t an oil rich nation we would have never defended it. Yes you would have. The U.S. has a long history of intervening in cases of agression from one country against another, and not just for selfish reasons (other than the ‘big picture’ interests, which are that it’s better for the United States when the world is a peaceful, democratic place). ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/43 "2002-09-28T03:31:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Yes you would have. The U.S. has a long history of intervening in cases of agression from one country against another, and not just for selfish reasons (other than the ‘big picture’ interests, which are that it’s better for the United States when the world is a peaceful, democratic place). \*\* I’m not trying to make the US out as always in the wrong. I just hate all the bullshit and rhetoric that covers up the self interested, not so nice things we do. Its to the point where many Americans think we are saints, and are shocked and confused to hear so much of the world hates us. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/44 "2002-09-28T03:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Yes you would have. The U.S. has a long history of intervening in cases of agression from one country against another, and not just for selfish reasons (other than the ‘big picture’ interests, which are that it’s better for the United States when the world is a peaceful, democratic place). \*\* I’m not trying to make the US out as always in the wrong. I just hate all the bullshit and rhetoric that covers up the self interested, not so nice things we do. Its to the point where many Americans think we are saints, and are shocked and confused to hear so much of the world hates us. ---
**Author:** ![DasUnterMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DasUnterMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DasUnterMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/45 "2002-09-28T04:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cainxinth \* > \*\* > > “Mensche, now there’s a misnomer If I ever heard one.” > > * * * > > What ever. > > * * * > > “If those patriots are willing to blindly walk into battle without fully understanding the reasons for it they are exactly what I called the respondents to the last question on that poll.” > > * * * > > Walking blindly into battle is what soldering is all about. It’s not a solders job to consider the politicks of his orders, His/Her job is to accomplish the mission. > > * * * > > “Patriotism is all well and good, except when it’s misplaced. You know what we call unpatriotic Nazis? Heros.” > > * * * > > Wow! Two whole pages before you pulled the nazi trump, won’t work tho. > > * * * > > "And don’t go making assumptions about me. I happen to believe in the US’s justifications for entering Viet Nam, and if called for duty I would gladly serve my country. \*\* But as far as I can tell you consider the American service people to be “war mongering, propaganda believing assholes” and “Nazis”. Seems a small contradiction to me. Mensch ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/46 "2002-09-28T05:06:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DasUnterMensch \* > **Walking blindly into battle is what soldering is all about. It’s not a solders job to consider the politicks of his orders, His/Her job is to accomplish the mission.** So let me get this straight. If you’re description of a soldier is correct, a soldier will go to war, only informed by whatever their leaders tell them, which they are expected to swallow without question. How does that not fit the definition of a “war mongering, propaganda believing asshole.”? Also, I can’t speak for the institution of the army as a whole, but I’ve met several soldiers who were thoughtful concerned people, who were not warmongers and knew that every story has more than one side. > [@](#): > > **But as far as I can tell you consider the American service people to be “war mongering, propaganda believing assholes” and “Nazis”. Seems a small contradiction to me.** I wasn’t drawing a comparison between America and the Nazis. I was pointing out that patriotism is not universally good. ---
**Author:** ![DasUnterMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DasUnterMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DasUnterMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/47 "2002-09-28T06:43:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cainxinth \* > \*\* > > So let me get this straight. If you’re description of a soldier is correct, a soldier will go to war, only informed by whatever their leaders tell them, which they are expected to swallow without question. How does that not fit the definition of a “war mongering, propaganda believing asshole.”? > > Also, I can’t speak for the institution of the army as a whole, but I’ve met several soldiers who were thoughtful concerned people, who were not warmongers and knew that every story has more than one side. > > I wasn’t drawing a comparison between America and the Nazis. I was pointing out that patriotism is not universally good. \*\* cainxinth: My description is absolutely correct. A good soldier will go to war informed by whatever his/hers orders are. He/she can be as thoughtful and concerned as they want to be but if those thoughts and concerns don’t jive with their lawful orders (pursuant to the Geneva and Haig Conventions and in defense of the U.S. constitution) they had better keep them to themselves. And that’s just the enlisted. According to the Unified Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) a commissioned officer is absolutely forbidden from criticizing ANY elected official as seen when a general officer in the 90s called then President Clinton a “dope smoker” and was subsequently cashiered. You may not like it the way it is Butterfly, but those rules were put in place to maintain general order and to protect the very political institutions from a coup that the military serves. Any enlisted person that as much as sniffs at his betters’ orders (for political not tactical reasons) should be given the maximum penalties under article 13 of the UCMJ on the spot. I’ll take your word on the reference. How bout a moratorium on the Nazi comparisons? Mensch ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/48 "2002-09-28T23:21:08Z")
Well then we are in agreement. Anyone, including a soldier, that wants war without knowing all the facts is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/49 "2002-09-29T00:29:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*I would like a clarification of the question. > Were the people polled asked “Would you approve of an invasion of Iraq (over the 90 day period granted to the President) over Congress’s specific objections?” > or, is the question > “Do you believe that Iraq must be attacked even if Congress disapproves of such action?” > > There is a HUGE difference between the two questions and it decides how I stand on the issue. In the first one, the pollsters would be asking if the public supports violating the Constitution. In the second one, Gallup is merely asking an opinion. Even if Congress doesn’t want to, what do you think we should do? \*\* Well, as **december** mentioned there may a loophole that would allow Bush to attack Iraq even without using the '73 War Powers Act. White House lawyers have made the case that the congressional resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq in 1991 is still in effect. So Bush can attack without congressional support, without violating the constitution. But I think the public took the question as, “Do you believe that Iraq must be attacked even if Congress disapproves of such action?” I think it was asked to gauge the general desire for war. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/50 "2002-09-29T14:59:36Z")
But **cainxinth** , if that’s your interpretation of the question, then it means you’re ranting about how you find your interpretation to be unacceptable and hateful and war-mongering. The problem is that you may be wrong and this whole rant is for naught. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/51 "2002-09-29T15:17:20Z")
We don’t want to have to fight, but by jingo, if we do, We’ve got the ships, We’ve got the men, We’ve got the money, too." - From a popular music hall song by George William Hunt, 1878 Ain’t it great to be THE super power. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908/52 "2002-09-29T18:40:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*But **cainxinth** , if that’s your interpretation of the question, then it means you’re ranting about how you find your interpretation to be unacceptable and hateful and war-mongering. > > The problem is that you may be wrong and this whole rant is for naught. \*\* That’s true I supposed. How do you interpret the question? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-40-of-americans-support-attacking-iraq-even-without-congressional-support/129908.md?page=2)