Mensche, now there’s a misnomer If I ever heard one. If those patriots are willing to blindly walk into battle without fully understanding the reasons for it they are exactly what I called the respondents to the last question on that poll. Patriotism is all well and good, except when it’s misplaced. You know what we call unpatriotic Nazis? Heros.
And don’t go making assumptions about me. I happen to believe in the US’s justifications for entering Viet Nam, and if called for duty I would gladly serve my country.
Yes you would have. The U.S. has a long history of intervening in cases of agression from one country against another, and not just for selfish reasons (other than the ‘big picture’ interests, which are that it’s better for the United States when the world is a peaceful, democratic place).
I’m not trying to make the US out as always in the wrong. I just hate all the bullshit and rhetoric that covers up the self interested, not so nice things we do. Its to the point where many Americans think we are saints, and are shocked and confused to hear so much of the world hates us.
I’m not trying to make the US out as always in the wrong. I just hate all the bullshit and rhetoric that covers up the self interested, not so nice things we do. Its to the point where many Americans think we are saints, and are shocked and confused to hear so much of the world hates us.
But as far as I can tell you consider the American service people to be “war mongering, propaganda believing assholes” and “Nazis”.
Seems a small contradiction to me.
Mensch
So let me get this straight. If you’re description of a soldier is correct, a soldier will go to war, only informed by whatever their leaders tell them, which they are expected to swallow without question. How does that not fit the definition of a “war mongering, propaganda believing asshole.”?
Also, I can’t speak for the institution of the army as a whole, but I’ve met several soldiers who were thoughtful concerned people, who were not warmongers and knew that every story has more than one side.
I wasn’t drawing a comparison between America and the Nazis. I was pointing out that patriotism is not universally good.
My description is absolutely correct. A good soldier will go to war informed by whatever his/hers orders are. He/she can be as thoughtful and concerned as they want to be but if those thoughts and concerns don’t jive with their lawful orders (pursuant to the Geneva and Haig Conventions and in defense of the U.S. constitution) they had better keep them to themselves. And that’s just the enlisted. According to the Unified Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) a commissioned officer is absolutely forbidden from criticizing ANY elected official as seen when a general officer in the 90s called then President Clinton a “dope smoker” and was subsequently cashiered.
You may not like it the way it is Butterfly, but those rules were put in place to maintain general order and to protect the very political institutions from a coup that the military serves. Any enlisted person that as much as sniffs at his betters’ orders (for political not tactical reasons) should be given the maximum penalties under article 13 of the UCMJ on the spot.
I’ll take your word on the reference. How bout a moratorium on the Nazi comparisons?
Well, as december mentioned there may a loophole that would allow Bush to attack Iraq even without using the '73 War Powers Act. White House lawyers have made the case that the congressional resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq in 1991 is still in effect. So Bush can attack without congressional support, without violating the constitution.
But I think the public took the question as, “Do you believe that Iraq must be attacked even if Congress disapproves of such action?” I think it was asked to gauge the general desire for war.
But cainxinth, if that’s your interpretation of the question, then it means you’re ranting about how you find your interpretation to be unacceptable and hateful and war-mongering.
The problem is that you may be wrong and this whole rant is for naught.
We don’t want to have to fight,
but by jingo, if we do,
We’ve got the ships,
We’ve got the men,
We’ve got the money, too."
- From a popular music hall song by George William Hunt, 1878