# (Almost) all across the spectrum, most Americans favor "path to citizenship" for illegals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061 "2011-06-19T19:56:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/1 "2011-06-19T19:56:51Z")
From the 2011 version of the Pew Political Typology study. See [here](http://people-press.org/2011/05/04/section-8-domestic-issues-and-social-policy/) – scroll down to middle of page: > [@](#): > > Views of Immigration > > There is widespread support across most typology groups for both a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants currently in the country and for stronger enforcement of immigration laws and border security. > > Majorities in seven of eight typology groups – all except Staunch Conservatives – favor providing a way for illegal immigrants in the U.S. to gain citizenship, if they pass background checks, pay fines and have jobs. Staunch Conservatives are evenly divided – with 49% in favor of a path to citizenship and the same number opposed. > > Support for a path to citizenship is stronger among Solid Liberals (94% favor) than other typology groups. Hard-Pressed Democrats express far less support for a path to citizenship than do other groups in the broad Democratic coalition: 61% favor a path to citizenship and 35% are opposed. > > While most Americans are open to reforming immigration laws to be more flexible toward illegal immigrants already in the country, the vast majority also supports stronger enforcement of immigration laws and border security. By a 78% to 19% margin, most Americans favor strengthening immigration enforcement. > > On this question, Solid Liberals diverge from most other groups: 55% favor stricter enforcement of stronger enforcement of immigration laws and border security, while 43% are opposed. > > Hard-Pressed Democrats support stronger enforcement by a wide margin (88% favor, 12% oppose), and as such are more in alignment with Republican groups than other Democratic groups. Most New Coalition Democrats favor stronger enforcement of immigration laws and border security, but their views are less one-sided (65% favor, 24% oppose). > > Substantial majorities of Republican and independent typology groups favor stronger enforcement of immigration laws, including 95% of Staunch Conservatives and 93% of Libertarians. 😕 So, why does “amnesty” still work as a political scareword?! ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/2 "2011-06-19T20:03:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, why does “amnesty” still work as a political scareword?! Well, “amnesty” and “path to citizenship” create very different mental images. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/3 "2011-06-19T20:07:42Z")
Because “amnesty” implies that all is forgiven, please be our guest and stay as long as you like, no citizenship necessary. There are very few in favor of that. If they want to be citizens, they’re going to have to work for it or take a hike back across the border. That is not amnesty. Why you’re determined to call it something it’s not is beyond me, and acting like you don’t understand why people get wrapped around the axle when you push the term is disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/4 "2011-06-19T20:17:57Z")
Yep, it is not amnesty, really, that word is what I usually see opponents of immigrants call it to scare people, is it because some reprehensible sources twist it to be an amnesty that you referred to it in quotes? ---
**Author:** ![Tugboater1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Tugboater1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugboater1970)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/5 "2011-06-19T20:52:29Z")
Well the way I see it…they were here illegally. That means they broke the law staying here. What proof do we have that they will not continue to break our laws? By granting them Amnesty, seems to me rewarding them for being here illegal. JMO ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/6 "2011-06-19T20:58:14Z")
See what I mean **BrainGlutton**? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/7 "2011-06-19T21:04:55Z")
“Path to citizenship” is not amnesty. It can include paying a fine, serving in the armed forces, or even returning home and applying for citizenship there. Unless the poll specified what the “path” was, it’s pretty worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/8 "2011-06-19T21:07:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Path to citizenship” is not amnesty. It can include paying a fine, serving in the armed forces, or even returning home and applying for citizenship there. Unless the poll specified what the “path” was, it’s pretty worthless. I would assume that very few people would think “path to citizenship” means “go home and wait to get in”. The vast majority of people would assume that it means you can stay here in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![Tugboater1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Tugboater1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugboater1970)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/9 "2011-06-19T21:23:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Path to citizenship” is not amnesty. It can include paying a fine, serving in the armed forces, or even returning home and applying for citizenship there. Unless the poll specified what the “path” was, it’s pretty worthless. I could support a the “Path to citizenship”. As far as amnesty I was merely stating my opinion, like or hate it thats my position on the issue. Lets face it amnesty did not curtail the problem in the 80’s like it was suppose to do. JMO ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/10 "2011-06-19T22:18:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I would assume that very few people would think “path to citizenship” means “go home and wait to get in”. The vast majority of people would assume that it means you can stay here in the interim. I prefer to not have to read people’s mind to figure out what their answers to a poll question is. I stand by what I said: if this was what the poll asked, then it’s pretty meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/11 "2011-06-19T22:43:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I prefer to not have to read people’s mind to figure out what their answers to a poll question is. I stand by what I said: if this was what the poll asked, then it’s pretty meaningless. The actual question was: > [@](#): > > Providing a way for illegal immigrants currently in the country > to gain legal citizenship if they pass background checks, > pay fines and have jobs? So what the “path” would consist of was at least broadly outlined. I guess if you view the fines as punishment for illegally entering the country in the first place, then it isn’t really amnesty, which to me suggests forgoing punishment. So I guess the lesson is that people touting such a path should emphisize that some form of punishment for breaking immigration laws will be enacted (though as a practical matter, I doubt the average illegal is exactly flush with cash, so the actual size of the fines would probably have to be pretty limited) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/12 "2011-06-19T23:20:03Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The actual question was: > > So what the “path” would consist of was at least broadly outlined. > > I guess if you view the fines as punishment for illegally entering the country in the first place, then it isn’t really amnesty, which to me suggests forgoing punishment. So I guess the lesson is that people touting such a path should emphisize that some form of punishment for breaking immigration laws will be enacted (though as a practical matter, I doubt the average illegal is exactly flush with cash, so the actual size of the fines would probably have to be pretty limited) OK, that narrows it down. It will be tricky to document that they have jobs since it’s illegal to hire them. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/13 "2011-06-19T23:28:41Z")
Probably because most Americans are stupid and don’t realize that the path to citizenship is extremely narrow and near impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/14 "2011-06-19T23:50:33Z")
Well, I was born in Iran and I’m overjoyed about not being denied US citizenship and think taking in more people who want to be US citizens and help improve our country is absolutely fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/15 "2011-06-19T23:52:45Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Because “amnesty” implies that all is forgiven, please be our guest and stay as long as you like, no citizenship necessary. There are very few in favor of that. If they want to be citizens, they’re going to have to work for it or take a hike back across the border. That is not amnesty. Yes, it is. Not-amnesty would be deporting the illegal; or not even considering his application until he goes home, tries to get into the country legally if he can, and starts his citizenship residency period over again that way. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/16 "2011-06-19T23:53:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Well, I was born in Iran and I’m overjoyed about not being denied US citizenship and think taking in more people who want to be US citizens and help improve our country is absolutely fantastic. I agree. Making the US an exclusive club with an indentured-servant system like we have in the US with undocumented immigrants is inherently racist, ethnocentric and nativist. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/17 "2011-06-20T00:07:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Well, I was born in Iran and I’m overjoyed about not being denied US citizenship and think taking in more people who want to be US citizens and help improve our country is absolutely fantastic. I think a lot of the anger toward illegal Mexicans is not simply because they’re immigrants. It stems from several things[ul] [li]A perceived disdain for the immigration laws that (presumably) their own immigrant ancestors adhered to.[/li][li]The perception (IMO correct) that Mexican immigrants are not assimilating into the wider American culture as much as previous immigrant groups.[/li][li]The overwhelming number of illegal immigrants in some parts of the country (Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico in particular)[/li][/ul] It’s kind of a hard thing to accept and embrace if suddenly in the span of 20 years, the Hispanic population goes from somewhere under 10% to over 25%, with a large proportion of those Hispanic people speaking only Spanish. That tends to engender hostility, whether that’s good or not. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/18 "2011-06-20T00:10:58Z")
What about African Americans? What is [their take](http://www.zimbio.com/Illegal+immigration/articles/GwpvL5ZWq_l/Polls+Show+Amnesty+Undocumented+Aliens+not) on a path to citizenship for illegals? > [@](#): > > 88% of African-Americans oppose amnesty. (Pulse Opinion Research, August 2009). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/19 "2011-06-20T00:15:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think a lot of the anger toward illegal Mexicans is not simply because they’re immigrants. > > It stems from several things[ul] > [li]A perceived disdain for the immigration laws that (presumably) their own immigrant ancestors adhered to.[/li][li]The perception (IMO correct) that Mexican immigrants are not assimilating into the wider American culture as much as previous immigrant groups.[/li][li]The overwhelming number of illegal immigrants in some parts of the country (Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico in particular)[/li][/ul] The kids assimilate, and if there is any slowness of assimilating by the parents, it’s probably because they have to lead at least partially secret lives. But the data shows that legal Hispanic immigrants are assimilating as fast if not faster than other immigrant groups. > [@](#): > > t’s kind of a hard thing to accept and embrace if suddenly in the span of 20 years, the Hispanic population goes from somewhere under 10% to over 25%, with a large proportion of those Hispanic people speaking only Spanish. You know those numbers are not correct, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061/20 "2011-06-20T00:17:04Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I agree. Making the US an exclusive club with an indentured-servant system like we have in the US with undocumented immigrants is inherently racist, ethnocentric and nativist. Hyperbole much? Unless you propose truly open borders and anarchy, you believe a version of that too like almost everyone does. Illegal aliens aren’t indentured servants either. Indentured servitude was legal and I am sure it wasn’t that great overall but plenty of people liked it better than their options at home. Undocumented aliens, also correctly known as illegal aliens, operate outside of any immigration strategy that can be controlled at all. I don’t hate them for doing it. I would probably do it too if I was a poor Mexican but it is illegal and risky and their should be no entitlement at all based on the fact that you got away with a crime for some period of time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-across-the-spectrum-most-americans-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegals/586061.md?page=2)