# "Almost all the clean up workers who worked on the Exxon Valdez spill are dead." Can this be true? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327 "2010-12-07T20:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/21 "2010-12-08T05:14:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > So what about average lifespan? Averages can be thrown off by a single outlier. As a general statement, that’s true. However, if we accept that there were 11,000 people involved in the cleanup, then knocking the average lifespan down to 51 from, let’s say, 71 would involve that one outlier dying at age negative 220,000. So it’s not going to be that particular way of lying with statistics that’s at play here. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/22 "2010-12-08T06:14:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But the five who are still alive may all live into their nineties. Why? Because they _dance_! ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/23 "2010-12-08T06:30:41Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > I don’t think you can calculate the average lifespan of an Exxon Valdez spill worker until they are all dead. Related thread on the belief that [NFL players die young](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552559)(for the same reason – only the ones who die young have died yet). ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/24 "2010-12-08T07:56:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s a quick illustration of why “average lifespan” is deceptive. > > Consider the original cast of Saturday Night Live in 1975. There were eight original members and their average age in 1975 was 29. > > Three members of that cast have died. Now it might be statistically significant that three out of eight people in a group from 1975 were dead in 2010. But how are you going to predict the “average lifespan” of that group? The three that have died had an average lifespan of 43. But the five who are still alive may all live into their nineties. Actually, only two fo the original SNL cast have died, John Belushi and Gilda Radner. The remaining six - Dan Aykroyd, Chevy Chase, Jane Curtin, Garret Morris, Laraine Newman, and Bill Murray, are all still alive. (I know Murray wasn’t an "original cast member, but I’m counting him because he did appear alongside the rest of the original cast from 1976 to 1980.) ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/25 "2010-12-08T13:36:39Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Actually, only two fo the original SNL cast have died, John Belushi and Gilda Radner. The remaining six - Dan Aykroyd, Chevy Chase, Jane Curtin, Garret Morris, Laraine Newman, and Bill Murray, are all still alive. I think \*\*Little Nemo \*\*is referring to Michael O’Donoghue, SNL’s first head writer, who was also credited as a cast member during the first season. But the point stands. In fact, did you know that the average life span among people born since 2001 is less than 10 years? _Shocking_! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/26 "2010-12-08T15:07:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’ve done the obvious thing and emailed Greenpeace to ask. And I’ve received a response: his source is CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/27 "2010-12-08T16:03:52Z")
Another point: I suspect that anyone who worked on the spill died because of the spill just like according to the radical anti-smoking brigade anyone who was ever around a smoker died of second-hand smoke, even if they got hit by a car. Yes it’s hyperbole, but not by much. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/28 "2010-12-08T16:13:23Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Actually, only two fo the original SNL cast have died, John Belushi and Gilda Radner. The remaining six - Dan Aykroyd, Chevy Chase, Jane Curtin, Garret Morris, Laraine Newman, and Bill Murray, are all still alive. > > (I know Murray wasn’t an "original cast member, but I’m counting him because he did appear alongside the rest of the original cast from 1976 to 1980.) As Wheelz posted, Michael O’Donoghue (1940-1994) was listed as a cast member in the first season. There was, in fact, another original cast member who hardly anyone remembers - George Coe. He was only listed as a cast member for the first three episodes of the series (although he did make a few appearances later). I didn’t include him because I couldn’t find out when he was born. He is however apparently still alive. > [@Derleth](#): > > Why? Because they _dance_! Turned out there’s a limit to dancing’s life preserving ability. It can overwhelmed by a combination of cocaine, heroin, and little chocolate donuts. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/29 "2010-12-08T18:55:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Turned out there’s a limit to dancing’s life preserving ability. It can overwhelmed by a combination of cocaine, heroin, and little chocolate donuts. No, no limit. If you dance for a few minutes in the morning every day for a hundred years, I guarantee that you’ll live a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/30 "2010-12-08T20:08:55Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I think \*\*Little Nemo \*\*is referring to Michael O’Donoghue, SNL’s first head writer, who was also credited as a cast member during the first season. Not wishing to continue the hijack, but I was aware O’Donoghue was a head writer, but he was never on my radar as a main cast member of the same ilk as Belushi, Chase, _et al_. ---
**Author:** ![BarryB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BarryB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarryB)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/31 "2010-12-08T22:12:48Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > As a general statement, that’s true. However, if we accept that there were 11,000 people involved in the cleanup, then knocking the average lifespan down to 51 from, let’s say, 71 would involve that one outlier dying at age negative 220,000. So it’s not going to be that particular way of lying with statistics that’s at play here. Except that maybe not be the statistic used, it could be the average lifespan of people who were involved in the cleanup and have died. It is plausible that a single early death might significantly change this value. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/32 "2010-12-09T01:27:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, no limit. If you dance for a few minutes in the morning every day for a hundred years, I guarantee that you’ll live a very long time. nm. Thought I was witty and I wasn’t. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/33 "2010-12-09T03:22:29Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Not wishing to continue the hijack, but I was aware O’Donoghue was a head writer, but he was never on my radar as a main cast member of the same ilk as Belushi, Chase, _et al_. It’s been 35 years, but as I recall, the cast was given a lot less attention back in the first season - none of them were stars yet. I believe the opening credit originally just mentioned them as “the not ready for prime time players” rather than identifying them each by name. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/34 "2010-12-09T09:12:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And I’ve received a response: his source is CNN. Wouldn’t be a CNN story citing Wilcox, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/35 "2010-12-09T13:16:59Z")
Thanks for doing the checking Quartz. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/36 "2010-12-09T14:15:02Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Wouldn’t be a CNN story citing Wilcox, would it? Are you implying this citation is a stable time loop? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/37 "2010-12-09T17:46:39Z")
[Here’s an actual news story which must be where the 11,000 figure apparently comes from](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/07/oil.spill.valdez.workers/index.html#fbid=kjsgoCz550D&wom=false), but it seems that rumors of their mass deaths are somewhat exaggerated: > [@](#): > > Mestas [an attorney for a plaintiff involved in the cleanup who sued Exxon over health issues] said the company was forced to let him view summaries of the health records of 11,000 cleanup workers, and found that 6,722 of them had gotten sick. There’s a pretty significant chasm between “almost all of them are dead” and “61% of them have gotten sick.” The article goes on to say that Exxon hired “roughly 50,000 workers” for the cleanup. It’s not clear whether or not the 11,000 workers whose records Mestas reviewed were anything approaching a representative sample of the 50,000. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/38 "2010-12-09T18:16:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Here’s an actual news story which must be where the 11,000 figure apparently comes from](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/07/oil.spill.valdez.workers/index.html#fbid=kjsgoCz550D&wom=false), but it seems that rumors of their mass deaths are somewhat exaggerated: > There’s a pretty significant chasm between “almost all of them are dead” and “61% of them have gotten sick.” And, of that 61%, what percentage of those illnesses were directly (or even indirectly) related to working the on the cleanup? The article doesn’t make that clear, either. 21 years have passed; certainly some percentage of those 11,000 would have become ill due to other reasons in the intervening years. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/39 "2010-12-09T18:30:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > And, of that 61%, what percentage of those illnesses were directly (or even indirectly) related to working the on the cleanup? The article doesn’t make that clear, either. 21 years have passed; certainly some percentage of those 11,000 would have become ill due to other reasons in the intervening years. Yeah, and we really need a better definition of “sick” to give this any credence. Are we talking about deadly cancers here? The common cold? Mad Cow Disease? Who among us has _not_ “gotten sick” sometime in the past 21 years, one way or another? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327/40 "2010-12-09T22:58:30Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Yeah, and we really need a better definition of “sick” to give this any credence. Are we talking about deadly cancers here? The common cold? Mad Cow Disease? > Who among us has _not_ “gotten sick” sometime in the past 21 years, one way or another? So a group of people have aged from an average of, say, twenty-five to an average of forty-five. As others have noted, those selected originally would have been selected for ability to physically handle the work. IOW the group has aged from peak youth to middle age. And 61% of them have “gotten sick”. Shocking I tells ya. Shocking. In fact this seems to prove that breathing in oil is healthy, I would have thought that 99% of those people would have gotten sick. Considering that all the normal diseases of aging, such as deteriorating vision and back pain are in there, it is remarkable that significant proportion of people never got ill. A better question would be why Greenpease has any credibility at all? It comes out with statements like this on a regular basis, yet people still believe it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/almost-all-the-clean-up-workers-who-worked-on-the-exxon-valdez-spill-are-dead-can-this-be-true/563327.md?page=3)