# Alphabetizing - Personal Preference **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003 "2014-02-23T04:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/1 "2014-02-23T04:36:26Z")
Re: things that begin with “The” like The Beatles. For your own use, do you prefer items that begin with The sorted under T, or in the case of the example, would you prefer The Beatles sorted under B? I like T. Sure it leaves the T list pretty bloated, but S is always over-sized anyhow; so maybe they can keep each other company. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/2 "2014-02-23T04:41:33Z")
B. I spent too many years thumbing through card catalogs. More problematic for me are things like _Alan Parsons Project_ or _Bryan Setzer Orchestra._ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/3 "2014-02-23T04:50:48Z")
One of Gary Larson’s _Far Side_ books is all indexed under “T”. The One About… ETA: [Wiener Dog Art](http://www.amazon.com/Wiener-Dog-Art-Side-Collection/dp/0836218655) ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/4 "2014-02-23T04:57:08Z")
“The” is the definite article, and contributes nothing to the meaning of a name or title other than to indicate that there is only one of them, or at least only one under discussion. I prefer to alphabetize under the first meaningful word. On the other hand, I find that I have no problem alphabetizing under an indefinite article, “a” or “an”. So I am inconsistent. Go figure. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/5 "2014-02-23T19:29:25Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I like T. Sure it leaves the T list pretty bloated, but S is always over-sized anyhow; so maybe they can keep each other company. It seems to me that this would cause some problems with groups who have names that may or may not “officially” include the word “the”. We know that the Beatles are officially “The Beatles” because they had an album entitled _The Beatles._ We also know that Talking Heads are _not_ “The Talking Heads” because they have an album entitled _The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads._ But what about bands like: Grateful Dead Strawbs Ramones Jefferson Airplane Buffalo Springfield Climax Blues Band Blues Magoos I’m not sure any of these ever had albums with their name preceded by “The” on the cover, but at least some of them are popularly referred to using the definite article. What criterion do you go by? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/6 "2014-02-23T19:36:45Z")
I’ve never heard anyone say “\*The \*Buffalo Springfield” The ones, sure. I don’t use “the” when alphabetizing. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/7 "2014-02-23T19:41:38Z")
Ignore the, a, and an when indexing my personal goods. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/8 "2014-02-23T20:04:39Z")
When I alphabetized my records, I’d do i by the first word of the group name, excluding “The.” For an individual artist, I’d use the first letter of the last name. If it were a group with someone’s name as part of it, I’d use the individual’s last name. If it’s a two-name group, I’d use the first name listed. I eventually quit alphabetizing; it made more sense to me to file albums by the most recent ones played. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/9 "2014-02-23T20:32:31Z")
I guess this is why these people chose their name… The, The. > **[The The](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The)** > > The The are an English post-punk band. They have been active in various forms since 1979, with the singer-songwriter Matt Johnson as the only constant band member. The The achieved critical acclaim and commercial success in the UK, with 15 chart singles (seven reaching the top 40), and their most successful album, Infected (1986), spent 30 weeks on the chart. They followed this with the top-ten albums Mind Bomb (1989) and Dusk (1993). > In November 1977, Matt Johnson placed an advertisement in ... ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/10 "2014-02-23T20:43:49Z")
I also alphabetize by the first meaningful word. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Who, etc. I alphabetize single artists by their first name as well. Bruce Springsteen, Charlie Daniels, Eric Clapton, Joe Walsh, Tom Petty. My computer alphabetizes song files this way and so does my iPod and I find it just as easy to search. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/11 "2014-02-23T20:49:46Z")
When I had to devise a sorting procedure for a large number of song files some time ago, I came up with a rule that worked very well for us. Use the exact title, but eliminate any “A,” “An,” or “The” that preceeds the main part of the title. So “A Lonely Man,” “The Lonely Man,” or “Lonely Man” would be filed together (the date would be the subsort in this case). Although it worked fine for song titles, I’m not sure how well it might work in other situations. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/12 "2014-02-24T04:35:43Z")
I was literally afraid to open this thread. Being a bit OCD, making hard and fast rules for sorting stuff is always my goal, but one agonized over endlessly. However, “the” is one I worked out decades ago: I ignore an opening “the.” My MP3 player does not, meaning I have to go in and change the tags on everything. No sweat because I have software to do it, and I derive great satisfaction from watching everything becoming meet and proper. “A” and “an” are a different story, and will drive me crazy. It’s one reason I don’t have anything by A Flock of Seagulls. ---
**Author:** ![wombattver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@wombattver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wombattver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/13 "2014-02-24T05:14:45Z")
I never use “The.” It drove me crazy when I lived in Singapore that the music stores would have everything under “The!” Cat Stevens always throws me for a loop, though. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/14 "2014-02-24T05:24:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > B. I spent too many years thumbing through card catalogs. > > More problematic for me are things like _Alan Parsons Project_ or _Bryan Setzer Orchestra._ I’d say that they should be respectively filed under A and B (instead of P and S). The persons name is _part_ of the band/group’s name, not all of it, so I would alphabetize the first word. So I guess the rule for group name supercedes the rule for a persons name for me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/15 "2014-02-24T05:45:57Z")
My own personal rules: A, An, and The are treated as if they are invisible. Foreign language definitive articles like El, La, Le, and Los are used for alphabetization. I acknowledge this is inconsistent of me. Numbers are alphabetized as if they were spelled out. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/16 "2014-02-24T05:47:47Z")
I see a lot of confusion over Lois McMaster Bujold. Should her books be filed under M or B? I’ve seen stores do it both ways. I personally opt for B. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/17 "2014-02-24T06:24:12Z")
I never sort “The” titles under “T” (unless the following word begins with “T.”) This helps especially with bands that are inconsistent or drop the article. Like, see “Smashing Pumpkins” vs “The Smashing Pumpkins.” (ETA: they go back on forth on the albums. First two are without the “the.” Next few until _Zeitgeist_ are with the “the.” Then they drop it for _Zeitgeist_ but put it back for _Oceania_. Pain in the ass if I were sorting it according to name. All (The) Smashing Pumpkins albums should be filed under “S.”) ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/18 "2014-02-24T07:43:08Z")
Personal alphabetizing? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/19 "2014-02-24T07:50:02Z")
I always ignore articles when alphabetizing. That’s the way I was taught, and it makes sense to me. > [@Isilder](#): > > I guess this is why these people chose their name… > > The, The. > > [The The - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The) You won’t find them on any list of mine. Same with “A, A.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003/20 "2014-02-24T16:45:19Z")
In cases like “The The” or, let’s pretend there’s a band called “The” (and for all I know, there may be one), that would of course get alphabetized under “The, The” and “The.” There’s no confusions there, because where else in the alphabet would you look for a band named “The”? I figure leaving off “the” and other articles when alphabetizing is to keep things simple. How many people remember whether it’s “The Pixies” or “Pixies” (it’s “Pixies” on their albums). Is it “Beatles” or “The Beatles”? (“The Beatles.”) Or you’d have the stupid case where some Smashing Pumpkins albums are under “The Smashing Pumpkins” while others are under “Smashing Pumpkins.” Eliminating the article makes it easier to find. You don’t have to potentially look in two locations in the index trying to figure out if the indexer filed it under the article or not, and you don’t have to remember whether the article is officially part of the name or not. With a name like “The” or “The The,” it’s pretty clear you have to look under “T” because where else would you look? Plus, in the first case, I’d argue that “The” isn’t being used as a definite article, anyway, it’s a proper noun, and in the second case, I’d say the first “the” is an article, but the second one is being used as a noun. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alphabetizing-personal-preference/682003.md?page=2)