Already have my jd, non-disclosure is threatening a revocation.

[UltraVires]

@jtgain

Don’t tell more lies to get out of this lie. Be honest from now on.

Not to suggest you lied, but to a Bar Ethics Committee, not telling them that you once lusted after your 9th grade teacher is considered a “lie.” Not bearing your very soul to their snooping, sniveling, laughing pathetic excuses of humanity is showing dishonesty to their sacred presence.

[iamthewalrus_3]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Dishonest lawyers have the ability to run lives, our even end them… And very few lay people have the ability to spot wrongdoing… So yes. If you flip through your state bar’s newspaper you’ll see dozens of suspensions every week for trivial violations of the rules.

Does a suspension mean a temporary revocation of the ability to practice? If so, that doesn’t seem out of line for an infraction.

In this case, though, the OP appears to be at risk of never being able to practice at all, which seems like a significantly more damaging punishment.

[Gyrate]

@robert_columbia

First of all, are there any schools that will do a retroactive denial of admission and actually claim that credits or degrees earned are void?

I’m sure there are but it would be unusual for it to happen for less than a major violation (e.g. you didn’t actually graduate from your previous school but claimed you did), and even then you’d probably get a hearing on the matter. I’d be very surprised if they did this; more likely, they’re engaging in a CYA exercise to avoid looking bad for admitting you without knowing about this incident. At worst you’ll probably get a “mark on your permanent record”.

But as stated above, it’s the Bar that you have to convince now and I agree that getting some real professional legal help is a better course of action than asking us. You’ve got a lot of work to do.

[Saint_Cad]

@robert_columbia

First of all, are there any schools that will do a retroactive denial of admission and actually claim that credits or degrees earned are void?

Second of all, to what extent can retrospective denials, in theory and practice, lead to cascading effects? For example, if I can dig up evidence that Joe, who currently has a PhD, should not have been promoted from kindergarten to first grade because he didn’t get his “clean cubby” certificate signed by a parent or guardian, can he have his high school diploma, bachelor’s degree, and all graduate degrees retroactively revoked and his transcripts and GPA wiped back to kindergarten?

This is an absolutely ridiculous example and I’m letting you know that I’ve reported your post and I hope the mods ban you for just the sheer idiocy you are promulgating here. Maybe YOU should go back to kindergarten and learn how not to be so stupid. There is no state that requires kindergarten and and required schooling begins at first grade so your example is ludicrous. Now if the analogy had been moving from first to second grade you may have something. Oh and mods, before you issue the warning to me, the above is meant in good fun and I obviously don’t mean all that. No hard feelings r_c?

I actually think that you have a good point that if a school knew about a situation we must trust that they handled it appropriately. However, that is for academic institutions. I think the Bar needs to look at what he did and what he did afterwards and judge based on if they think he’ll have an ethical lapse as a lawyer.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@iamthewalrus_3

Does a suspension mean a temporary revocation of the ability to practice? If so, that doesn’t seem out of line for an infraction.

Yes, but a suspension of 90 days or more is basically a death sentence, at least in Florida. Plus they are most commonly for technical infractions. 100% compliance with trust accounting requirements is essentially impossible (for example).

[iamthewalrus_3]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Yes, but a suspension of 90 days or more is basically a death sentence, at least in Florida.

Can you explain this? Is it for PR reasons? If you have to stop practicing for 90 days, all your clients will know that you were subject to disciplinary action? Or is there some other reason?

Does a suspension effectively taint you as a dishonest lawyer forever? Are there statistics about how much a suspension leads to ceasing the practice of law, or how many lawyers are suspended?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

You have to tell your clients so they can find new attorneys for pending matters, but the real issue is that you have to petition for reinstatement if you get a suspension that long - and it’s really hard to do. It’s not like Florida had a shortage of lawyers, so the Bar has no real reason to let you come back. Not sure about those statistics. I’ll have a look.

[Caffeine.addict]

From what I recall from when my friends and I were applying for our state bars, the biggest issue in not passing your character and fitness seemed to be failure to disclose things. I read the bar newsletter, and most of the things that get you disbarred or suspended in my jurisdiction tend to be pretty egregious.

A friend of mine had a somewhat checkered past with a DUI, Possesion of a Controlled substance, fleeing arrest, and some other charge*. He actually passed the character and fitness portion because he disclosed everything. I’m pretty sure he disclosed it to the law school since he told the story to pretty much anyone.

Another guy I know failed to disclose something, and sure enough he passed the bar but wasn’t admitted.

• The cops tried to pull him over for a DUI, he and his buddy tried to get away, the police caught them, and they both came out the same door. They caught him with a small amount of weed.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Saint_Cad

This is an absolutely ridiculous example and I’m letting you know that I’ve reported your post and I hope the mods ban you for just the sheer idiocy you are promulgating here. Maybe YOU should go back to kindergarten and learn how not to be so stupid. There is no state that requires kindergarten and and required schooling begins at first grade so your example is ludicrous. Now if the analogy had been moving from first to second grade you may have something. Oh and mods, before you issue the warning to me, the above is meant in good fun and I obviously don’t mean all that. No hard feelings r_c?

Bolding mine.

No warning issued, but don’t say things like that even jokingly on here, outside of the Pit, because then it opens the door for many people to call each other names and then just say things like “What? I was just joking!”

[robert_columbia]

@Idle_Thoughts

Bolding mine.

No warning issued, but don’t say things like that even jokingly on here, outside of the Pit, because then it opens the door for many people to call each other names and then just say things like “What? I was just joking!”

Thanks.

I know my example of being busted back to kindergarten was an extreme example, but it sometimes helps to think in terms of these extremes to really understand the potential ramifications of policies. There’s also the obvious observation that most people are reasonable and that there is going to be a moral limit as to how hard they are going to want to punish someone, and that university degrees are not in danger of revocation due to undisclosed, nearly forgotten incidents in kindergarten or first grade, but you can make an argument that it might be appropriate in a case where a person failed to disclose very serious misconduct their senior year of high school and lied their way to a place at State U.

[Scorpiolove23]

Did you have a formal hearing in your undergrad?? Was the record expunged? Can whoever gave u the advice attest to it?

I have a friend who also had misconduct in undergrad but was also given bad advice not to disclose…she went to a top law school and passed the bar and character and fitness. Even though she passed there is still a possibility it could come back to haunt her in the future.

[kaylasdad99]

Welcome to the Dope, Scorpiolove23. Based on a review of the OP’s profile, I’m inclined to believe he’s not going to return to the thread.

Don’t let that discourage you from sticking around and having some fun, though!

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Scorpiolove23

Did you have a formal hearing in your undergrad?? Was the record expunged? Can whoever gave u the advice attest to it?

For the record, applicants must generally disclose even expunged records to state bars.

[Scorpiolove23]

Ok thanks Really Not All That Bright! The only reason I asked is because I know two people who went to top law schools with academic misconduct. One went to a top 5 school and the other to a top 10. They were specifically told by the dean/pre-law coordinator that there records were expunged and not to report it. One passed the C&F portion with flying colors and the other passed after a hearing. (It turns out that one of his recommenders mentioned the incident to the bar.) During the hearing he was able to get the dean/pre-law coordinator to attest to everything that was told to him. He was warned about professional conduct and integrity but is now practicing law.
That’s the only reason I asked. I don’t recommend non-disclosure but it seems as if distressedjd is already past that point. So maybe getting the person who gave him the “bad advice” to assist him might help.

[ENugent]

@robert_columbia

For example, if I can dig up evidence that Joe, who currently has a PhD, should not have been promoted from kindergarten to first grade because he didn’t get his “clean cubby” certificate signed by a parent or guardian, can he have his high school diploma, bachelor’s degree, and all graduate degrees retroactively revoked and his transcripts and GPA wiped back to kindergarten?

This was my recurring nightmare for years after I finished grad school and law school. Seriously, I used to wake up in a cold sweat at least once a month.

[Spiderman]

@Scorpiolove23

He was warned about professional conduct and integrity but is now practicing law.

I thought this was a prerequisite to becoming a lawyer. :rolleyes: