# Alright: Where Are The Weapons of Mass Destruction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022 "2003-05-09T01:50:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/61 "2003-05-11T19:10:54Z")
I’m honestly holding out some hope that this WASN’T a gigantic stack of lies, and that something will be found. But to be honest, I suspect Bush et al. took us all for fools, and I think a lot of people proved him right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/62 "2003-05-11T19:38:20Z")
Well, I’m pulling this opinion right out of my Nixon, but I dont think so. There is lots and lots of indications of intelligence ignored and bullshit believed. Seymour Hersh has an article in the most recent _New Yorker_ that’ll curl your hair. If he’s right, and I think he is, we got our story straight from the horse’s ass, from people we knew had every reason to tell us what we wanted to hear. Remember when Rummy bitched that the CIA wasn’t telling him the truth, because they weren’t telling him what he already believed? Stuff like that. I watched all the newsy talk shows this morning. Not one word about this. Liberal media, my ass! ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/63 "2003-05-11T19:52:18Z")
If you check CNN, Reuters et al, you’ll notice how the gave the thing a whole one and a half paragraphs bundled in under headlines about the Iraqi occupation gov being replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/64 "2003-05-12T10:29:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > \*\*The framework of the UN is weak and getting weaker, \*\* And who’s fault would that be? Hmmm? > [@](#): > > \*\*France hoping their paltry veto would keep the world from discovering that they’re selling more than jets to Iraq. \*\* No-one, repeat, **no-one** knows, and uses, the power of the veto more than the US. > [@](#): > > \*\*Germany appealing to their leftist political majority, by flatly refusing to discuss any solution other than endless inspections (what kind of world IS it, where Germans are against war, anyway??) :dubious: \*\* Remember kids; US appealing to their right-wing voters = good. Germany appealing to their leftists voters = bad. And always a good excuse to trot out a World War joke! ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/65 "2003-05-12T10:39:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\* > > Remember kids; US appealing to their right-wing voters = good. Germany appealing to their leftists voters = bad. And always a good excuse to trot out a World War joke! \*\* Not to mention that Germany did, in fact, NOT appeal to leftist voters. Leftist voters have a pretty strict opinion as to what the part of the German constitution that reads Article 26 [Ban on War] (1) Acts tending to and undertaken with intent to disturb the peaceful relations between nations, especially to prepare war or aggression, are unconstitutional. They have to be made a criminal offence. Had the chancellor catered to German leftists, he would have done what Belgium or Switzerland did: Refuse to grant transit rights and stop all arms exports. The US can count itself lucky he didn’t go that far for the sake of not disturbing relations with the US even more. It would have screwed up the operation big time. What the original poster also forgets is that it wasn’t just German leftists who were opposed to the war. Except for their party leadership, it was German conservatives as well. The fact that their party leadership was willing to throw their christian traditions overboard did not impede their constituents from listening more to Rome than to their party heads. The German government lacked any mandate for support for the war. It also lacked constitutional leeway in the absence of a NATO or UN mandate and a clear and impending crisis. But that’s not all. Given that the UN charter imposes strict primacy of itself over other treaties, the principles of the UN take primacy over other alliances. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/66 "2003-11-20T12:59:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **Magiver** : WMD were not the REASON given for going to war. This is a link to Colin Powell’s speech before the UN less than a year ago. I know that you are familiar with this speech, so I honestly don’t understand how you can say that it wasn’t a reason given. This seems to be the premise of his speech: > [@](#): > > The gravity of this moment is matched by the gravity of the threat that Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction pose to the world. Let me now turn to those deadly weapons programs and describe why they are **real and present dangers to the region and to the world.** (bold type added) And another excerpt: > [@](#): > > The United States will not and cannot run that risk for the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11th world. He also mentions the Iraw/ Al Quida Network as being a danger. As an American, I certainly thought that these were the reasons that my country gave for going to war. I think most Americans thought so. Did we just sort of miss what Bush was driving at? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/67 "2003-11-20T14:53:48Z")
Ah, **Zoe** , do you realize that you are responding to a 6 month old thread? ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/68 "2003-11-20T15:06:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > \*\*Nope, just the ones that murder their own citizens for exercising free dissent, kill olympic athletes for poor performance, imprison innocent people for being illiterate, and hoarde billions of american dollars while the common people starve, and openly harbor terrorists who are a threat to freedom world wide. > \*\* Many of the reasons given were very subjective, and based on American definitions and standards. If you took the reasons, but view them from a different point of view, then even America looks bad. For example, I saw a news report just before the war on BBC2 where they spoke to a group of Anti-castro freedom fighters operating out of Florida. The authorities were aware of their existence, and either turned a blind eye, or actively helped them out. If you’re a member of the cuban government, then these freedom fighters sure look like terrorists being harboured by the US (desperately tried to find a cite for this, but can’t). I’ve also read about the growing gap between rich and poor in the US. How large does this gap have to be before you consider it to be an unfair society and a reason for invasion? Americas use of the death penalty is abhorrent to many countries. According to Amnesty, you are in the top three executers in the world ([Found a cite for this one](http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-index-eng) ). You also execute minors, which could also be considered a violation of human rights. There were serious doubts about the validity of the last election. Whether you believe them or not, these could be given a reason to doubt the democratic nature of the US (at the moment at least). Finally, you have LOTS of WMDs. I know that Saddam was considered a dangerous man to have WMDs, but part of that reputation was down to his unprovoked invasion of another country. If the war-doubts are to be believed, then so has Bush. Should he be left with his finger on the button? I really want to stress I am **NOT** suggesting that America is like Iraq, that Bush is like Saddam, or that America needs to be invaded. I don’t want to debate the pros and cons of America. I am merely trying to show how the reasons given for the war can be twisted to fit even the US, if you see it from a different point of view. As most politicians can twist the facts to fit their own agenda, it is quite conceivable that a skilled leader in another country could build a convincing argument for going to war with the US, and even try to make themselves look like the good guy. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022/69 "2003-11-20T15:37:46Z")
> [@](#): > > But Mr Perle, a key member of the defence policy board, which advises the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said that “international law … would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone”, and this would have been morally unacceptable. [Perle admits invasion was illegal](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alright-where-are-the-weapons-of-mass-destruction/174022.md?page=3)