# Alt/Conventional medicine treating Cancer, Rubella, other diseases \[split off from Rubella thread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940 "2015-04-30T18:52:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/1 "2015-04-30T18:52:35Z")
I know a few people who healed their cancer with juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health, and all of that without the conventional chemo and radiation. So why can’t it heal Rubella? …I’m saying this by assuming that’s sarcasm ^above, btw. So if it’s not, please correct me. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/2 "2015-04-30T18:55:21Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > I know a few people who healed their cancer with juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health, and all of that without the conventional chemo and radiation. So why can’t it heal Rubella? …I’m saying this by assuming that’s sarcasm ^above, btw. So if it’s not, please correct me. Because all that stuff is bullshit, that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/3 "2015-04-30T18:57:29Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Because all that stuff is bullshit, that’s why. Lol. Well, I think the majority of conventional medicine is bull myself. So I guess we’re even. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/4 "2015-04-30T18:58:09Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > I know a few people who healed their cancer with juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health, and all of that without the conventional chemo and radiation. So why can’t it heal Rubella? …I’m saying this by assuming that’s sarcasm ^above, btw. So if it’s not, please correct me. Because those people you know did not heal their cancer this way. But keep on … doing whatever it is your’re doing here. Hope you enjoy. Keep an eye out for a Cat declawing thread or a circumcision threat - you’d do well there. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/5 "2015-04-30T19:03:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Because those people you know did not heal their cancer this way. > > But keep on … doing whatever it is your’re doing here. Hope you enjoy. Keep an eye out for a Cat declawing thread or a circumcision threat - you’d do well there. You know, it’s so amazing to me how disrespectful people are towards people who choose alternative medicine over conventional. And you presume a lot by saying these people I know didn’t heal their cancer in such a way. Look, I don’t judge anyone who chooses chemo and radiation…they need to do whatever they personally believe is going to be beneficial for them, but it’s not right to make people who choose an alternative route of healing out as stupid or crazy. Anyway. Cancer isn’t the topic here. Rubella is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/6 "2015-04-30T19:05:04Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > I know a few people who healed their cancer with juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health, and all of that without the conventional chemo and radiation. I’ll admit from the outset that I have my doubts. Can you offer assurances that these cures were covered under reasonable scientific standards? I’d want to know the following before I’d accept such a claim: \*The existence of the cancers was confirmed by medical professionals \*The methods you described were the sole means of treatment \*The cure of the cancers was also confirmed by medical professionals \*The outcome was different than the outcome would have been for no treatment ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/7 "2015-04-30T19:28:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll admit from the outset that I have my doubts. Can you offer assurances that these cures were covered under reasonable scientific standards? I’d want to know the following before I’d accept such a claim: > > \*The existence of the cancers was confirmed by medical professionals > \*The methods you described were the sole means of treatment > \*The cure of the cancers was also confirmed by medical professionals > \*The outcome was different than the outcome would have been for no treatment Claim? …I swear, I will never understand why it must be so difficult for people to wrap their minds around the fact that one can go an alternative route to fight a disease and actually win. The root of alternative medicine is all about building one’s immune system, which is key to fighting off infection and disease. I don’t think anyone, no matter how conventionally minded they are, could disagree with that one. Anyway, I can give a sure ‘yes’ to the first three questions. Anything goes with the last question. I’m not certain I know anyone personally who got cancer and chose to do literally nothing but allow the cancer to take its course. They either chose chemo and radiation or they chose an alternative route. …Sadly, I only know one woman who beat her cancer by treating it conventionally, but she also had one of the most treatable cancers we know today. Regardless of her healing method, I’m glad she’s okay now. Again, I don’t judge anyone who chooses chemo and radiation. That’s their choice and I can respect that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/8 "2015-04-30T19:32:07Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > You know, it’s so amazing to me how disrespectful people are towards people who choose alternative medicine over conventional. And you presume a lot by saying these people I know didn’t heal their cancer in such a way. Look, I don’t judge anyone who chooses chemo and radiation…they need to do whatever they personally believe is going to be beneficial for them, but it’s not right to make people who choose an alternative route of healing out as stupid or crazy. > > Anyway. Cancer isn’t the topic here. Rubella is. Cancer is generally not contagious. So it doesn’t really affect others if someone chooses to skip conventional medicine in favor of fake cures. But rubella, measles, etc. _are_ contagious, so if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, it _does_ affect other people. I’d advise you to ask Gene Tierney, but she’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/9 "2015-04-30T19:39:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Cancer is generally not contagious. So it doesn’t really affect others if someone chooses to skip conventional medicine in favor of fake cures. But rubella, measles, etc. _are_ contagious, so if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, it _does_ affect other people. I’d advise you to ask Gene Tierney, but she’s dead. I was trying to get off the cancer thing since that’s not what the thread is about. Not trying to send this thread into another direction. Ahh, Gene Tierney…good actress. We’ll just have to agree to disagree I guess. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/10 "2015-04-30T19:43:03Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Claim? …I swear, I will never understand why it must be so difficult for people to wrap their minds around the fact that one can go an alternative route to fight a disease and actually win. The root of alternative medicine is all about building one’s immune system, which is key to fighting off infection and disease. I don’t think anyone, no matter how conventionally minded they are, could disagree with that one. No, the root of alternative medicine is around confirmation bias, profit, misinformation, and gullibility. If alternative medicine actually has positive effects as confirmed by science (and I’m using the loose definition of science here: “We tried it, _controlling for both deception and self-deception_ and it worked”), then we no longer call it alternative medicine. There’s no magic here: all that’s required for science to accept a treatment is for it to be tested under controlled conditions, and actually produce better results than chance allow for. That’s a really, really low bar, and the fact that these treatments can’t meet it says everything that needs to be said. But please, continue. In case you’ve lost the “alternative medicine supporter” script, the next steps are: (a) accuse science people of being close-minded because they don’t believe every silly-ass thing without evidence. (b) accuse science of being a religion, and subject completely to faith. (c) point out a few badly-written internet sites that draw wild conclusions from a few anecdotes. (d) claim that “money and special interests” are “suppressing” your cures (bonus points for failing to point out that these “suppressed” cures are all over the Internet). (e) start the _ad hominem_ attacks against various scientists, (f) use the old “lots of people laughed at \ and he/she/it turned out to be right!” line, (g) make reference to willow bark and st. john’s wart (especially without pointing out the serious side effects of the latter) as evidence that all alternative treatments work, and finally (h) go back to harping on the close-minded thing. If you could skip all that and point out some actual clinical studies showing that your treatments work, we’d be delighted. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/11 "2015-04-30T19:43:56Z")
But you’re the one who brought up the insane idea that people could cure cancer with “juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health.” And now you’re saying you’re not trying to sidetrack the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/12 "2015-04-30T19:47:27Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > I’m not certain I know anyone personally who got cancer and chose to do literally nothing but allow the cancer to take its course. They either chose chemo and radiation or they chose an alternative route. … There usually isn’t any difference in survival rates between those who chose alternative medicine, and those who chose to do nothing. > [@](#): > > I know a few people who healed their cancer with juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health, and all of that without the conventional chemo and radiation. So why can’t it heal Rubella? Juicing and vitamin C don’t have any effect on cancer, and also don’t have any effect on rubella. That’s why it can’t heal rubella. Do you follow the logic? Woo-based things like juicing don’t work; science-based things like vaccination do work. So for disease conditions like rubella, where we have effective tools, we can remove the disease. For things like cancer, where we don’t have anything as effective, it is a lot harder. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/13 "2015-04-30T19:48:30Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > . Look, I don’t judge anyone who chooses chemo and radiation…they need to do whatever they personally believe is going to be beneficial for them. Shouldn’t they do whatever is _actually_ better for them? What you _believe_ is going to be beneficial is irrelevant. Otherwise we’d still use bloodletting and hot blisters to cure ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/14 "2015-04-30T19:56:15Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > I was trying to get off the cancer thing since that’s not what the thread is about. Not trying to send this thread into another direction. > > Ahh, Gene Tierney…good actress. > > We’ll just have to agree to disagree I guess. No, disagreeing about vaccinations leads to people dying. You don’t get to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/15 "2015-04-30T19:56:40Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > We’ll just have to agree to disagree I guess. Thankfully, when it comes to public health, we DO NOT “agree to disagree” when it comes to indisputable medical facts. The germ theory of disease is pretty well established here in the 21st century. Your opinions about it lead to disease and death. So we will not be listening to them, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/16 "2015-04-30T20:34:24Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > In case you’ve lost the “alternative medicine supporter” script, the next steps are: (a) accuse science people of being close-minded because they don’t believe every silly-ass thing without evidence. (b) accuse science of being a religion, and subject completely to faith. (c) point out a few badly-written internet sites that draw wild conclusions from a few anecdotes. (d) claim that “money and special interests” are “suppressing” your cures (bonus points for failing to point out that these “suppressed” cures are all over the Internet). (e) start the _ad hominem_ attacks against various scientists, (f) use the old “lots of people laughed at \ and he/she/it turned out to be right!” line, (g) make reference to willow bark and st. john’s wart (especially without pointing out the serious side effects of the latter) as evidence that all alternative treatments work, and finally (h) go back to harping on the close-minded thing. If you could skip all that and point out some actual clinical studies showing that your treatments work, we’d be delighted. Very good. References to “conventional” cancer therapy being “cut/burn/poison” are also part of the standard text (Ms. S. gets partial credit for dismissing all non-surgical cancer treatment as “chemo and radiation”, while ignoring immunotherapy (i.e. getting the immune system to attack certain cancers, a form of treatment which _does_ “build” the immune system, unlike alt med practices) and targeted drug therapies which hit specific molecular sites in a tumor).\* IV vitamin C, while not quite as ridiculous a cancer treatment as juicing, has a long way to go to show definite efficacy, and that it can be anything more than an adjunct therapy in oncology. As a solo treatment (with or without juices, enemas, supplements and the rest of the alt med armentarium) one can expect no meaningful results from it. \*partial credit is also awarded for complaining about people being “disrespectful” toward alties, after herself dismissing the majority of “conventional” medicine as “bull”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/17 "2015-04-30T20:38:24Z")
If you have cancer and want to kill yourself with alternative bullshit then go ahead. I don’t particularly care if you want to do something that stupid as an adult. Just don’t refuse a child with cancer access to treatment. The same is not true of diseases like measles. Do not spread contagious diseases because you are making the conscious choice to avoid preventative measures such as measles vaccination. If you do, I will do everything I can to make sure that you are watched carefully in order to protect the vulnerable members of my family and community. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/18 "2015-04-30T20:56:46Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > but it’s not right to make people who choose an alternative route of healing out as stupid or crazy. The motto of the website is “Fighting Ignorance since 1973”, so on this particular website, slamming snake oil is not only expected, but encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/19 "2015-04-30T21:04:17Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Claim? …I swear, I will never understand why it must be so difficult for people to wrap their minds around the fact that one can go an alternative route to fight a disease and actually win. The root of alternative medicine is all about building one’s immune system, which is key to fighting off infection and disease. I don’t think anyone, no matter how conventionally minded they are, could disagree with that one. Most of us look around and see that science works and magic doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/20 "2015-04-30T21:35:34Z")
You could always [pray away cataracts.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940.md?page=2)