# Alt/Conventional medicine treating Cancer, Rubella, other diseases \[split off from Rubella thread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940 "2015-04-30T18:52:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/21 "2015-04-30T21:53:58Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > I know a few people who healed their cancer with juicing, supplements, intravenous vitamin C therapy, and overall diet changes to their health, and all of that without the conventional chemo and radiation. So why can’t it heal Rubella? …I’m saying this by assuming that’s sarcasm ^above, btw. So if it’s not, please correct me. My vote for dumbest post of the year so far. Has nothing to due with vaccinations. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/22 "2015-04-30T22:10:15Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > We’ll just have to agree to disagree I guess. As the saying goes, you’re entitle to your own opinions, but not your own facts. And it’s a fact that the people you know did not heal their cancer with juicing, vitamin C, and so forth. > [@](#): > > You know, it’s so amazing to me how disrespectful people are towards people who choose alternative medicine over conventional. Why should anyone be respectful to someone who chooses treatments that don’t work over those that do? > [@](#): > > The root of alternative medicine is all about building one’s immune system, which is key to fighting off infection and disease. I don’t think anyone, no matter how conventionally minded they are, could disagree with that one. I’m a professional biologist, and I disagree with it. The immune system may not help with most cancers. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/23 "2015-04-30T22:21:20Z")
Well, most people who catch rubella get better with no treatment beyond bed rest and chicken soup. I’m sure that if you add vitamin C and juice to that regimen, most of them will still get better. Of course, a few people who catch rubella are seriously injured or die, and everyone who catches rubella can spread it to other people, some of whom may be in the unlucky group. Very few cancers are contagious. I was sad that Steve Jobs died after he tried to treat himself with juice and vitamins, but hey, his body, his choice. fwiw, I know several people who have recovered from cancer after conventional treatment, which can include chemo, radiation, surgery, or fancy experimental immunological treatments. And I know others who died. ---
**Author:** ![Marlonius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Marlonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlonius)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/24 "2015-05-01T00:00:39Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > No, the root of alternative medicine is around confirmation bias, profit, misinformation, and gullibility. If alternative medicine actually has positive effects as confirmed by science (and I’m using the loose definition of science here: “We tried it, _controlling for both deception and self-deception_ and it worked”), then we no longer call it alternative medicine. > > There’s no magic here: all that’s required for science to accept a treatment is for it to be tested under controlled conditions, and actually produce better results than chance allow for. That’s a really, really low bar, and the fact that these treatments can’t meet it says everything that needs to be said. > > But please, continue. In case you’ve lost the “alternative medicine supporter” script, the next steps are: (a) accuse science people of being close-minded because they don’t believe every silly-ass thing without evidence. (b) accuse science of being a religion, and subject completely to faith. (c) point out a few badly-written internet sites that draw wild conclusions from a few anecdotes. (d) claim that “money and special interests” are “suppressing” your cures (bonus points for failing to point out that these “suppressed” cures are all over the Internet). (e) start the _ad hominem_ attacks against various scientists, (f) use the old “lots of people laughed at \ and he/she/it turned out to be right!” line, (g) make reference to willow bark and st. john’s wart (especially without pointing out the serious side effects of the latter) as evidence that all alternative treatments work, and finally (h) go back to harping on the close-minded thing. If you could skip all that and point out some actual clinical studies showing that your treatments work, we’d be delighted. I’m saving this for future reference, it’s perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/25 "2015-05-01T00:18:45Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > The root of alternative medicine is all about building one’s immune system, which is key to fighting off infection and disease. I don’t think anyone, no matter how conventionally minded they are, could disagree with that one. So what do alternative medicine practitioners do when someone with an autoimmune disease, such as psoriatic arthritis, lupus, or type I diabetes, comes in for treatment? Building the immune system isn’t going to help with those, the _problem_ is an overactive immune system. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/26 "2015-05-01T00:42:08Z")
I have done the rare mod action “Splitting/moving posts to their own discussion” which is an action I think is useful and should be used more often. This discussion comes [from this thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755765) by the way. I moved it here as to not hijack the other one any more. Please keep in mind that **Miss Spaulding** is not the OP of this thread, hers was originally a post reply in the other thread, but she gets put as the OP by default when posts are moved to make a new thread. If this topic gets overly heated, it may get moved to GD later on, but for now, I think it’s okay here. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/27 "2015-05-01T01:28:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Well, most people who catch rubella get better with no treatment beyond bed rest and chicken soup. I’m sure that if you add vitamin C and juice to that regimen, most of them will still get better. > > Of course, a few people who catch rubella are seriously injured or die, and everyone who catches rubella can spread it to other people, some of whom may be in the unlucky group. And, of course, if a pregnant woman gets rubella, her baby can be very badly affected, for the rest of his or her life. _That’s_ why we want to eradicate rubella- we want to get rid of congenital rubella syndrome. Rubella itself generally isn’t too bad, but congenital rubella syndrome is. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/28 "2015-05-01T02:35:28Z")
I don’t think you would want to build the immune system in someone whose problem was allergies, either. The problem there is a misguided if not overactive immune system, that is attacking something harmless like pollen or peanut proteins. In certain strains of flu, most notably the 1918 pandemic, having a strong immune system isn’t always a good thing. You can get an immune overreaction called a cytokine storm, which we think is what actually killed a lot of young and otherwise healthy people who got the 1918 flu. Boosting the immune system of someone with 1918 flu could make things a lot worse. Cytokine storms may also be what causes deaths from Ebola. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/29 "2015-05-01T02:44:48Z")
FYI to those who don’t realize it, this isn’t my thread. Yes, the OP was a post I made in the original Rubella thread, but this thread is not mine. I’ve been the source of attacks for about 48 hours now, so…just letting those who are not ‘in on the joke’ know. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/30 "2015-05-01T03:07:59Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I have done the rare mod action “Splitting/moving posts to their own discussion” which is an action I think is useful and should be used more often. > > This discussion comes [from this thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755765) by the way. I moved it here as to not hijack the other one any more. > > Please keep in mind that **Miss Spaulding** is not the OP of this thread, hers was originally a post reply in the other thread, but she gets put as the OP by default when posts are moved to make a new thread. > > If this topic gets overly heated, it may get moved to GD later on, but for now, I think it’s okay here. Thanks a lot. You do realize you just made this whole thing worse, right? …This isn’t a ‘discussion’, it’s purpose only serves for everyone who disagrees with my post from hours ago to make fun, goad, flame, ect… which I’ve kind of senselessly endured for the last 48 hours. So no, this thread isn’t ‘okay here for now’. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/31 "2015-05-01T03:13:01Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Thanks a lot. You do realize you just made this whole thing worse, right? …This isn’t a ‘discussion’, it’s purpose only serves for everyone who disagrees with my post from hours ago to make fun, goad, flame, ect… which I’ve kind of senselessly endured for the last 48 hours. > > So no, this thread isn’t ‘okay here for now’. So present some evidence that backs up your claim. Prepare to be eviscerated. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/32 "2015-05-01T03:18:14Z")
If you think think that advising people that have actual real cancer to drink some juice is good advice instead of seeing seeing a a real qualified doctor who’s been to a actual real medical school, then … go team Spaulding ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/33 "2015-05-01T03:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > If you think think that advising people that have actual real cancer to drink some juice is good advice instead of seeing seeing a a real qualified doctor who’s been to a actual real medical school, then … go team Spaulding Don’t put words in my mouth. I would never ‘advise’ anyone with cancer to do anything in regards to treatment, and I haven’t said once that I have or plan to advise anyone with cancer on choosing an alternative medicine route. Whatever they do is their choice and their business, and it’s certainly between them and their own doctor. Yes, I have my opinions on what I consider to be a good treatment plan, but I would never actually advise anyone to do it. That’s not my place. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/34 "2015-05-01T03:44:59Z")
I’m curious about the fundamental basis of your position in this sense: clearly you have concluded that juicing, supplements etc can cure cancer. That being so, why do you conclude that rubella can’t be cured by juicing, supplements etc? Don’t get me wrong, my view is that juicing, supplements etc can’t cure either cancer or rubella, but I’m interested in what makes you reach one conclusion about one, and another conclusion about the other. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/35 "2015-05-01T04:34:23Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I’m curious about the fundamental basis of your position in this sense: clearly you have concluded that juicing, supplements etc can cure cancer. That being so, why do you conclude that rubella can’t be cured by juicing, supplements etc? > > Don’t get me wrong, my view is that juicing, supplements etc can’t cure either cancer or rubella, but I’m interested in what makes you reach one conclusion about one, and another conclusion about the other. I believe the intent of the OP got lost when it was taken out of the context of the original thread. When Miss Spaulding asked why alternative medicine can’t heal rubella, she was asking rhetorically. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/36 "2015-05-01T04:45:13Z")
I see. So if that’s the case Miss Spaulding is saying alternative medicine can cure cancer so therefore it can cure rubella; but then she doesn’t want to discuss whether alternative medicine can cure cancer even though that’s the fundamental basis of her allegation it should be able to cure rubella. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/37 "2015-05-01T11:46:04Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Thanks a lot. You do realize you just made this whole thing worse, right? …This isn’t a ‘discussion’, it’s purpose only serves for everyone who disagrees with my post from hours ago to make fun, goad, flame, ect… which I’ve kind of senselessly endured for the last 48 hours. That’s all your comment deserves, quite frankly. It’s scientifically invalid and morally bankrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/38 "2015-05-01T13:05:43Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Don’t put words in my mouth. > > I would never ‘advise’ anyone with cancer to do anything in regards to treatment, and I haven’t said once that I have or plan to advise anyone with cancer on choosing an alternative medicine route. Whatever they do is their choice and their business, and it’s certainly between them and their own doctor. Yes, I have my opinions on what I consider to be a good treatment plan, but I would never actually advise anyone to do it. That’s not my place. I think we can save posters a lot of trouble here Miss Spaulding by answering one simple question. Is it possible for us to put any evidence in front of you that will change your mind? Put another way, could you ever be persuaded to say that evidence-based medicine is more effective than alternative therapies? Because if not, everyone here, including you, is wasting their time. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/39 "2015-05-01T13:21:38Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Don’t put words in my mouth. > > I would never ‘advise’ anyone with cancer to do anything in regards to treatment, and I haven’t said once that I have or plan to advise anyone with cancer on choosing an alternative medicine route. Whatever they do is their choice and their business, and it’s certainly between them and their own doctor. Yes, I have my opinions on what I consider to be a good treatment plan, but I would never actually advise anyone to do it. That’s not my place. That’s a bullshit copout, though. “I’m not advising you to invest your money with Bernie Madoff. That’s not my place. But I know friends who invested with him and got rich.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940/40 "2015-05-01T13:25:54Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > FYI to those who don’t realize it, this isn’t my thread. Yes, the OP was a post I made in the original Rubella thread, but this thread is not mine. I’ve been the source of attacks for about 48 hours now, so…just letting those who are not ‘in on the joke’ know. If you are “attacked” please click on the little red triangle and report the post. So far I have not seen any attacks. You made a statement. People are calling you out on that statement. That’s the way it is around here. If you make a statement be prepared to back it up, especially in Great Debates or General Questions. If you make extraordinary claims be doubly prepared to get called on it and back up your statement. > [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Thanks a lot. You do realize you just made this whole thing worse, right? …This isn’t a ‘discussion’, it’s purpose only serves for everyone who disagrees with my post from hours ago to make fun, goad, flame, ect… which I’ve kind of senselessly endured for the last 48 hours. > > So no, this thread isn’t ‘okay here for now’. We are here to moderate discussions and facilitate conversations between posters. We are not here to protect you from yourself. You made the statements you get to live with the reaction. The Mods will be here to make sure the reactions are expressed within the rules of the Board. If you have any questions about modding open a thread in ATMB. Any derailing of threads with discussions or complaints about moderation may get you a warning. As **Idle Thoughts** stated, this looked like it might need to go to GD. I think it’s clear that many want to debate the issue so I will move it there. **Miss Spaulding** can chose to engage in that debate or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alt-conventional-medicine-treating-cancer-rubella-other-diseases-split-off-from-rubella-thread/718940.md?page=3)