# Alternate History Stories **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 11, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331 "2014-11-11T11:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/1 "2014-11-11T11:28:49Z")
I know there have been quite a lot of alternate history books written about the American Civil War, WWII, the fall of the Roman Empire etc. Are there any about World War I? I’ve done a search but haven’t found anything. Today’s Remembrance Day services has got me thinking how the world might have been different had the War to End All Wars either not occurred or if it had ended differently. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/2 "2014-11-11T15:24:54Z")
It’s not exactly what you are asking for but Harry Turtledove wrote a series called The Great War which is an alternate World War I fought in a timeline where there is a United States and Confederate States of America. The CSA is on the British side and the USA is with Germany. It is essentially WWI but on US soil. The series continues with the post war years and WWII as well (there is also a novel prior to the Great War set between Civil War and WWI). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/3 "2014-11-11T15:41:19Z")
[Uchronia.net](http://Uchronia.net) has a list of alternate history books/stories sorted by point of divergence - this link [Uchronia: Divergence Chronology](http://www.uchronia.net/bib.cgi/diverge.html?o=1000) and this one [Uchronia: Divergence Chronology](http://www.uchronia.net/bib.cgi/diverge.html?o=1250) have the points of divergence just before and during WWI. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/4 "2014-11-11T15:51:03Z")
The short answer in all these inquiries is, “Turtledove, Harry N.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/5 "2014-11-11T16:58:59Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > It’s not exactly what you are asking for but Harry Turtledove wrote a series called The Great War which is an alternate World War I fought in a timeline where there is a United States and Confederate States of America. The CSA is on the British side and the USA is with Germany. It is essentially WWI but on US soil. > > The series continues with the post war years and WWII as well (there is also a novel prior to the Great War set between Civil War and WWI). It’s an interesting series, though it doesn’t technically begin in WWI. It actually starts during the (American) Civil War, and makes one little change- Lee’s General Order 191 is not intercepted, Union forces aren’t repositioned to stop him, Gettysburg never happens, and Davis wins diplomatic recognition from France and Spain, forcing Lincoln to sue for peace. Because of this, the series (which doesn’t otherwise have a formal name) is often known in the fandom as the ‘Timeline 191 series’. It’s also commonly referred to as the ‘put Harry Turtledove’s kids through college’ series, for the alarming amount of filler it contains. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/6 "2014-11-11T17:29:48Z")
There’s one in which WWI never occured, but the point of divergence is in 1879, long before the WWI of our time. It’s Stirling’s _The Peshawar Lancers_. One short incident in the book mentions the possiblility of a war occurring “all over the world” The characters had assumed that such a thing could never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/7 "2014-11-11T19:15:34Z")
Peter Tsouras has edited a series of alternate history books. These aren’t short story collections. They’re essays by historians on what might have happened if some historical event had occurred differently. Several of the books have had WWII themes but there have also been volumes on the American Civil War, the Napoleonic Wars, and the Cold War. And coincidentally, the latest book in the series (released just last month) is _Over the Top: Alternate Histories of the First World War_. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/8 "2014-11-11T19:21:37Z")
William Sander’s [the Wild Blue and the Gray](https://www.google.com/search?q=tigriopus+californicus&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=KTH&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=z0xiVNrGHMuqNvXXgYAO&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1252&bih=591) is very good. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/9 "2014-11-11T23:19:54Z")
I saw a sort of alternate WWI one in the bookstore, the other day, [1920: America’s Great War.](http://www.amazon.com/1920-Americas-Great-Robert-Conroy/dp/1451639317/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415746953&sr=1-3&keywords=america%27s+great+war) Something about the German Empire winning the war, and/or being grudgingly forced into a negotiated peace by President Wilson’s efforts. Er, the “forced peace” bit being Wilson’s work, not the “military victory” part—in fact, Wilson being peacenik-y ends up gutting US military readiness, and the grudge-holding dastardly Huns invade North America through Mexico. Something like that. Decent cover-art to be sure, at least. And I recall reading a little blurb somewhere about a story where England allies with a remnant Muslim state based in Granada that survives the Reconquista, and in fact lasts at least long enough to send troops to the Western Front in support of her ally the UK in WWI. Sounds interesting, but 'damned if I can remember anything more substantial about it, though—sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/10 "2014-11-12T03:44:19Z")
The Years of Rice And Salt has a WW-I-like sequence though history diverged dramatically about 800 years back when the Black Plague killed 99.9% of Europeans vs. 1/3 of them. In that book, the WW-I bit went on for something like 60 years. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/11 "2014-11-12T04:52:04Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > I saw a sort of alternate WWI one in the bookstore, the other day, [1920: America’s Great War.](http://www.amazon.com/1920-Americas-Great-Robert-Conroy/dp/1451639317/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415746953&sr=1-3&keywords=america%27s+great+war) Something about the German Empire winning the war, and/or being grudgingly forced into a negotiated peace by President Wilson’s efforts. Er, the “forced peace” bit being Wilson’s work, not the “military victory” part—in fact, Wilson being peacenik-y ends up gutting US military readiness, and the grudge-holding dastardly Huns invade North America through Mexico. I’ve read that. (Robert Conroy is a personal favorite.) The basic idea was the Germany’s plan for 1914 worked. They defeated France and Russia early and it was a short war - essentially a second Franco-Prussian War. Britain was not defeated in the same way France and Russia had been so they’re still a rival to Germany’s growing power. The United States had never entered the war. The book, as noted, was set in 1920. Germany has decided it needs to start expanding its influence outside of Europe and they sign a treaty with Mexico. The agreement is German troops will be based in Mexico for a two-pronged invasion of the southwestern United States. Mexico will theoretically get Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona and Germany will get California. They pretty much dismiss the American ability to resist because, without WWI, the United States has only a minimal standing army available to fight with. The rest of the book is the plucky American underdogs fighting back against the evil invaders (I won’t spoil it by telling you who wins). It’s a fun light read if you’re into the genre. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/12 "2014-11-12T05:17:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > William Sander’s [the Wild Blue and the Gray](https://www.google.com/search?q=tigriopus+californicus&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=KTH&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=z0xiVNrGHMuqNvXXgYAO&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1252&bih=591) is very good. ??? Your link goes to pictures of some kind of aquatic invertebrate. [Here’s a review of William Sanders Wild Blue and Gray](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3288188-the-wild-blue-and-the-gray) It does look like a peach; I’ll be getting a copy forthwith! Thank’ee! (I’ve done well following your recommendations!) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/13 "2014-11-12T05:18:15Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > There’s one in which WWI never occured, but the point of divergence is in 1879, long before the WWI of our time. It’s Stirling’s _The Peshawar Lancers_. One short incident in the book mentions the possiblility of a war occurring “all over the world” The characters had assumed that such a thing could never happen. Considering that world has a worldwide catastrophe that destroys the vast majority of the world’s population, there not being a World War I is a minor detail. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/14 "2014-11-12T08:16:46Z")
Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote a story in 1915 in which the US stayed out of WWI, and the western hemisphere sealed off all contact with the eastern hemisphere: [Beyond Thirty (a.k.a. The Lost Continent)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Thirty). ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/15 "2014-11-12T10:16:54Z")
Thank you everyone. Some interesting leads there for me. WWI had such far reaching consequences that it interests me to speculate what would have happened had the war either not occurred or had a different outcome. In many ways, I think the ramifications of either outcome could have been more far reaching than a different outcome to WWII. I have a lot of avenues to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/16 "2014-11-12T16:08:42Z")
> [@jabiru](#): > > Thank you everyone. Some interesting leads there for me. WWI had such far reaching consequences that it interests me to speculate what would have happened had the war either not occurred or had a different outcome. In many ways, I think the ramifications of either outcome could have been more far reaching than a different outcome to WWII. > > I have a lot of avenues to investigate. _[Archduke Franz Ferdinand Lives!: A World without World War I](http://www.amazon.com/Archduke-Franz-Ferdinand-Lives-without/dp/1137278536/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415808383&sr=1-1)_ by Richard Ned Lebow. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/17 "2014-11-12T17:45:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > ??? Your link goes to pictures of some kind of aquatic invertebrate. > > [Here’s a review of William Sanders Wild Blue and Gray](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3288188-the-wild-blue-and-the-gray) > > It does look like a peach; I’ll be getting a copy forthwith! Thank’ee! > > (I’ve done well following your recommendations!) Thanks! I have the flu and am barely functional. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/18 "2014-11-12T18:15:49Z")
How about World War 1 set in alternate realities? There’s [Leviathan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(Westerfeld_novel)) by Scott Westerfield. > [@](#): > > First of a young adult fiction trilogy set in alternative version of World War I, it has Central Powers (Clankers) using mechanized war machines opposed by Entente Powers (Darwinists) who fabricate living creatures genetically. The heroes are teens Aleksander, son of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, and Deryn, Scottish girl with dreams of joining the British Air Service with her brother. I got distracted, didn’t finish it & move on to the other two. But it’s not bad at all… Then there’s _The Bloody Red Baron_ by Kim Newman. The second in a series begun by _Anno Dracula_–in which Professor Van Helsing failed & Dracula married Queen Victoria. All the vampires of legend & literature came out of the closet & being turned became The Done Thing. In this book, Dracula is no longer in Britain but The Diogenes Club is on the job–protecting The Empire from the forces of darkness. And the Kaiser… Newman populates his books with a few original characters, some from literature (genre & “serious”) and others from history. How can you make the Great War even bloodier? Easy! There was a genre of speculative fiction early in the 20th century, in which various writers tried to imagine the coming war. Michael Moorcock edited two anthologies: [Before Armageddon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Armageddon) & [England Invaded](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_Invaded). ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-stories/704331/19 "2014-11-13T12:01:47Z")
Not exactly alternative history – but, World War I-related, and by Harry Turtledove, of whom I’m rather a fan. His rather haunting short story _Ils Ne Passeront Pas_. Set in the battle of Verdun, 1916 – French versus Germans, the viewpoint characters mostly French, but some German, rival machine-gunners. Premise is, the events in the biblical book of Revelation, start to occur in the midst of the battle of Verdun – various supernatural / demonic hordes referred to therein, begin to show up. The machine-gun teams – hardened and brutalised by already many weeks of unending horror and slaughter – are nonchalant, and just think, “oh, this must be something that the Germans / French have just come up with – it isn’t even particularly scary” – and go on blasting away at the evil hordes, and IIRC do a lot of damage to them. If nothing else, a novel idea…