# Alternate History: The Republic of Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 22, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538 "2015-01-22T00:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/1 "2015-01-22T00:53:19Z")
The annexation of Texas was originally ejected by the US Senate and it took negotiation by Presidents Tyler and Polk (some of it in secret) for the Senate to ratify the treaty. On to the alternate history. A current historian is going through some of Sam Houston’s letters and two are stuck together. After separating them, the second letter is from President Tyler confirming that the treaty will contain a section that allows Texas to unilaterally secede from the United States. The section was kept secret from the public for obvious reasons and let’s assume that this secret treaty really was ratified. So considering that this means that Texas legally seceded in 1861 (despite what Texas v. White [1868] says), what would happen now in 2015 when the real treaty is found? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/2 "2015-01-22T01:19:27Z")
Probably nothing does. Probably a minority of people actually want it to happen so there would be look for an excuse not to allow it. I think one argument would go as follows. It was perfectly legal to Texas to secede, but they then joined the Confederate States which declared war on the U.S. so fighting them in the Civil War was within “international law.” After the Civil War, Texas applied for readmission to the U.S. The terms of the readmission supersede the original treaty so Texas no longer has that right. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/3 "2015-01-22T01:45:19Z")
Oh please please please let it be true! Good riddance to the lot of them. Pull all movable Federal property out of Texas, destroy what can’t be moved, stop all payments to the state of any kind, allow those who want to remain US citizens to leave, and then seal the border tight. Fuck 'em. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/4 "2015-01-22T02:16:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > … and then seal the border tight. I don’t think you’ll have to worry much about that. Seems like just the kinda thing they’d take care of. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/5 "2015-01-22T04:21:05Z")
Nitpick: The Senate never did ratify any treaty with the Republic of Texas. Texas was admitted via ordinary legislation, passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the President. Neither legislation nor a treaty can override the Constitution of the United States, so if the Supreme Court has determined (as it has) that the Constitution forbids secession, any treaty or law to the contrary would be invalid. ---
**Author:** ![48Willys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/db5fbb/32.png) [@48Willys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/48Willys)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/6 "2015-01-22T05:34:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh please please please let it be true! > > Good riddance to the lot of them. Pull all movable Federal property out of Texas, destroy what can’t be moved, stop all payments to the state of any kind, allow those who want to remain US citizens to leave, and then seal the border tight. Fuck 'em. Really? I find this to be an interesting idea, but lets get rid of So-Cal at the same time. Two birds with one stone and all that.😃 ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/7 "2015-01-22T05:50:45Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh please please please let it be true! > > Good riddance to the lot of them. Pull all movable Federal property out of Texas, destroy what can’t be moved, stop all payments to the state of any kind, allow those who want to remain US citizens to leave, and then seal the border tight. Fuck 'em. If we have to rely on the weak and pampered here in socal to defend this nation we would really be in trouble. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/8 "2015-01-24T01:39:17Z")
I took a course in constitutional law back in the 70’s…in Texas. Basically, when a ‘territory’ or whatever, becomes a state it has exactly the same rights as all the other states _and no more_. So even if the treaty was discovered it would make no difference since once Texas became a state it would become void. There’s also the ‘right’ of Texas to split and become 5 states. Covered under the same law. Texas can’t do that unilaterally, it has to be a federal issue. IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/9 "2015-01-24T01:46:56Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh please please please let it be true! > > Good riddance to the lot of them. Pull all movable Federal property out of Texas, destroy what can’t be moved, stop all payments to the state of any kind, allow those who want to remain US citizens to leave, and then seal the border tight. Fuck 'em. I second the motion. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/10 "2015-01-24T01:56:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh please please please let it be true! > > Good riddance to the lot of them. Pull all movable Federal property out of Texas, destroy what can’t be moved, stop all payments to the state of any kind, allow those who want to remain US citizens to leave, and then seal the border tight. Fuck 'em. Could we then erase the Bush presidents? Like they never happened? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/11 "2015-01-24T02:02:01Z")
> [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > Basically, when a ‘territory’ or whatever, becomes a state it has exactly the same rights as all the other states _and no more_. So even if the treaty was discovered it would make no difference since once Texas became a state it would become void. Exactly. Let’s say, as a hypothetical, that British Columbia decided to secede from Canada (and Canada was okay with this) and join the United States as our 51st state. So Ottawa and Victoria and Washington got together to draft a treaty to work out the details. And the British Columbians said _“We’re generally okay with American culture. But we’re not big on guns. So can you include an article in the text of the treaty that says our state legislature will have the authority to prohibit guns?”_ And Washington is so excited about the idea of getting a new state that they say yes. The treaty is enacted and British Columbia becomes our 51st state. And then the new state legislature passes a law prohibiting private gun ownership. Would it fly? No. Because the Second Amendment overrides any treaty. So Americans living in the state of British Columbia would be entitled to the same constitutional rights as Americans living in any of the other fifty states. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-history-the-republic-of-texas/710538/12 "2015-01-24T06:25:24Z")
Interesting. Personally I’d like all the red South states to secede, again, and this time, without objection. Tayuxes could be its own. We could then enter into a EU type union :0) and let President Cruz and President Warren work things out 🙂