# Alternate word for 'rare', as it pertains to meat **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990 "2018-08-02T17:16:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/1 "2018-08-02T17:16:21Z")
‘Well-done’ meat is obviously cooked a lot. ‘Medium’ is less cooked. These words make sense. ‘Rare’? That doesn’t make sense; so I looked it up. > [@](#): > > “undercooked,” 1650s, variant of Middle English _rere_, from Old English _hrere_ “lightly cooked,” probably related to _hreran_ “to stir, move, shake, agitate,” from Proto-Germanic \*_hrorjan_ (source also of Old Frisian _hrera_ “to stir, move,” Old Saxon _hrorian_, Dutch _roeren_, German _rühren_, Old Norse _hroera_), from PIE root \*_kere-_ “to mix, confuse; cook” (source also of Greek _kera-_ “to mix,” _krasis_ “mixture”). Originally of eggs, not recorded in reference to meat until 1784, and according to OED, in this sense **“formerly often regarded as an Americanism, although it was current in many English dialects …”** Note the last sentence, which I have emphasized. If ‘rare’ is or was regarded as an Americanism, what word do/did people use instead? (Please don’t say it’s ‘blue’. That’s different from ‘rare’ in my opinion.) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/2 "2018-08-02T17:21:23Z")
Well, according to what you posted, “rare” or a close variant was used all the way back to Old English so, in the English speaking world, it appears that there wasn’t any other word used in its place. Meat used to be cooked over open fires, which sear the outside but cook the inside very slowly. So “rare”, to one degree or another, was the natural state of meat going back to when humans first used fire to cook. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/3 "2018-08-02T17:23:06Z")
Pink? It seems to me like it’s only been in the last few years, but I’ve been at or ordered from several restaurants where the order taker has asked some variation of “pink, some pink, or no pink?” In fact, in at least one instance I can remember, after I specifically asked for medium rare, the server asked me again to clarify “pink, some pink, or no pink?” - apparently, per their script/SOP, I had to specify level of pink, not level of rare/well-done. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/4 "2018-08-02T17:27:20Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Pink? > > It seems to me like it’s only been in the last few years, but I’ve been at or ordered from several restaurants where the order taker has asked some variation of “pink, some pink, or no pink?” In fact, in at least one instance I can remember, after I specifically asked for medium rare, the server asked me again to clarify “pink, some pink, or no pink?” - apparently, per their script/SOP, I had to specify level of pink, not level of rare/well-done. They have probably had problems with diners who sent back their order because they didn’t actually know what medium rare meant when they ordered it that way. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/5 "2018-08-02T17:36:13Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > In fact, in at least one instance I can remember, after I specifically asked for medium rare, the server asked me again to clarify “pink, some pink, or no pink?” - apparently, per their script/SOP, I had to specify level of pink, not level of rare/well-done. Wow. Depending on my mood, that is likely the point where I ask for my check, pay what I owe, and go somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/6 "2018-08-02T17:49:13Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > It seems to me like it’s only been in the last few years, but I’ve been at or ordered from several restaurants where the order taker has asked some variation of “pink, some pink, or no pink?” What if you want red? Do they not do rare? > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > They have probably had problems with diners who sent back their order because they didn’t actually know what medium rare meant when they ordered it that way. A local place we like has this on their [menu](http://places.singleplatform.com/jack-niemanns-black-forest-steakhouse/menu): **Rare:** partially raw, warm in the center **Medium Rare:** fully cooked, pink all the way though, tender and juicy **Medium:** partially overcooked, pink only in the center **Medium Well:** overcooked, very slightly pink in the center, dried out with a 24% loss of original weight \*\*Well Done: \*\*completely over cooked and with most of the flavor, texture and weight destroyed ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/7 "2018-08-02T17:55:08Z")
That’s not what I would consider the typical definition of rare or medium rare: [ul] [li]Rare: cool red center[/li][li]Medium rare: warm red center[/li][/ul] I agree with **kayaker** : if a restaurant is asking level of pink for a steak, that’s a non-starter. For a hamburger, that’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/8 "2018-08-02T17:58:01Z")
It looks like “underdone” used to be more common in British English until the early 1960s. See the [Google Ngram results for British English](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=underdone+steak%2Crare+steak&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=10&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cunderdone%20steak%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crare%20steak%3B%2Cc0) of “rare steak” vs. “underdone steak.” In American English, “rare” has long been more common: [Ngram results for American English](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=underdone+steak%2Crare+steak&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=17&smoothing=10&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cunderdone%20steak%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crare%20steak%3B%2Cc0) ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/9 "2018-08-02T17:59:15Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > In fact, in at least one instance I can remember, after I specifically asked for medium rare, the server asked me again to clarify “pink, some pink, or no pink?” - apparently, per their script/SOP, I had to specify level of pink, not level of rare/well-done. I’ve only ever been asked this for burgers at places like Red Robin. Never at steakhouses, even the chain ones. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/10 "2018-08-02T18:02:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What if you want red? Do they not do rare? Some places no longer do rare, especially with ground beef. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/11 "2018-08-02T18:05:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Some places no longer do rare, especially with ground beef. If I cannot get a rare hamburger, I’ll go elsewhere where I can. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/12 "2018-08-02T18:12:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > If I cannot get a rare hamburger, I’ll go elsewhere where I can. Agreed. I like my burgers medium rare, but some places refuse to do anything less than medium. I don’t go back. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/13 "2018-08-02T18:13:19Z")
Pink is a common term. Also bloody. I’ve seen doneness inflation over the years, what was rare I’d now medium rare, medium is verging on well. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/14 "2018-08-02T18:26:33Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wow. Depending on my mood, that is likely the point where I ask for my check, pay what I owe, and go somewhere else. The “pink/no pink” thing might reflect something about a restaurant’s clientele more than something about the restaurant’s ability to put out a good steak. Not to make a value judgement about people not versed in fine dining concepts – just that if your restaurant’s prices and specialties combine to draw in unsophisticated (not ‘bad’) diners looking for something a little nicer than usual _for them_, I can understand simplifying the concepts. I’d be really surprised to pay $75-100 for a steak dinner and be asked “pink/no pink”. If I were paying $18 bucks in a chain steak joint, I wouldn’t be surprised at all … though none of the cheap low-brow steak places here have any problem using the typical rare-through-well done continuum. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/15 "2018-08-02T19:31:22Z")
What **Johnny L.A.** described is how I perceived the levels of doneness as a child. What **JeffB** used is what how I hear them used now. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/16 "2018-08-02T19:36:23Z")
From Pulp Fiction: Burned to a crisp or bloody as hell? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/17 "2018-08-02T19:50:27Z")
The term in use before “rare” almost certainly wasn’t “pink”, because that’s itself a relatively recent coinage (at least, as relates to the color). “Pink” originally meant cut into shape along the edges (see “pinking shears”, scissors which cut a fancy shape), and then got applied to a sort of carnation because of the shape of the flowers, and then got applied to a shade of light red because that’s the color the flowers were. > [@](#): > > Quoth **Johnny L.A.** : > A local place we like has this on their [menu](http://places.singleplatform.com/jack-niemanns-black-forest-steakhouse/menu): > > **Rare:** partially raw, warm in the center > **Medium Rare:** fully cooked, pink all the way though, tender and juicy > **Medium:** partially overcooked, pink only in the center > **Medium Well:** overcooked, very slightly pink in the center, dried out with a 24% loss of original weight > \*\*Well Done: \*\*completely over cooked and with most of the flavor, texture and weight destroyed Well that’s just wrong. “Fully cooked” and “pink all the way through” are completely inconsistent: The pink part isn’t fully cooked. If you like your meat better only partially cooked, that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean that it’s fully cooked. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/18 "2018-08-02T19:53:47Z")
Rare isn’t the least cooked version of steak. There is another category called “blue” that is even less cooked. It basically means just throwing it on the fire for a few seconds and then taking it off. I have no idea why it is called “blue”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/19 "2018-08-02T20:01:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Rare isn’t the least cooked version of steak. There is another category called “blue” that is even less cooked. It basically means just throwing it on the fire for a few seconds and then taking it off. I have no idea why it is called “blue”. Yes. To me, ‘rare’ means bloody but not cold. ‘Blue’ means bloody _and_ cold\*. \*Except for the sear, of course ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990/20 "2018-08-02T20:18:21Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Rare isn’t the least cooked version of steak. There is another category called “blue” that is even less cooked. It basically means just throwing it on the fire for a few seconds and then taking it off. I have no idea why it is called “blue”. It’s from French originally (“bleu”), and it refers to the purplish color that raw meat has when you cut into it. Why they didn’t call it pourpre I don’t know. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternate-word-for-rare-as-it-pertains-to-meat/818990.md?page=2)