# Alternative to Wacom Cintiq **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076 "2010-07-09T10:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/1 "2010-07-09T10:13:53Z")
I am looking to replace my old Wacom Intuos 2. I want a Cintiq, but they are massively overpriced. I guess their patents prevent anyone from competing because there is no other product out on the market. I found some touch screens that were cheap, but most don’t make it clear if they are compatible with a stylus/pen at all. > **[Touchscreen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen)** > > A touchscreen or touch screen is the assembly of both an input ('touch panel') and output ('display') device. The touch panel is normally layered on the top of an electronic visual display of an electronic device. > The display is often an LCD, AMOLED or OLED display. > A user can give input or control the information processing system through simple or multi-touch gestures by touching the screen with a special stylus or one or more fingers. Some touchscreens use ordinary or specially coated gloves... If you look at the table below (at the link above), it shows that pretty much all touch screens are capable of working with pens. Even the iPhone has some styli available. > **[Graphics tablet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_tablet)** > > A graphics tablet (also known as a digitizer, digital graphic tablet, pen tablet, drawing tablet, external drawing pad or digital art board) is a computer input device that enables a user to hand-draw images, animations and graphics, with a special pen-like stylus, similar to the way a person draws images with a pencil and paper. These tablets may also be used to capture data or handwritten signatures. It can also be used to trace an image from a piece of paper that is taped or otherwise secured... From there you can see that Wacom detects touch using Passive and Electromagnetic technologies. * * * Here is a few things I know: Laptop manufacturers like Toshiba use Wacom technology in their tablet PCs, and users have successfully been able to use pens designed for Wacom tablet with these laptops. However, no one has reported specifics about how well they perform (pressure sensitivity, response, etc). There are touch screens over $1000 cheaper than the Wacom Cintiq 21UX at the same size. They use other technologies, which I assume is because Wacom holds the patents to the better technology (I assume it’s better anyway). [http://www.nextwindow.com/index.html](http://www.nextwindow.com/index.html) There are companies like this who sell overlays for your existing LCD monitor to turn them into touch displays, the specs are good (9ms response, good resolution). The problem is although the list stylus support, they don’t mention anything about pressure sensitivity. * * * Anyone have a suggestion? I think Wacom is great, but their product is so overpriced. Even on ebay, the cheapest I’ve seen a cintiq 21UX go for is like $1800 used… and it’s retails for $2000. I’m not willing to spend that much. Thanks for the help in advance. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/2 "2010-07-09T12:03:21Z")
I’ve ogled those new HP TouchSmart PCs, but it seems that as PCs go, they’re a bit anemic and not up to hard use with Photoshop or Illustrator. There’s just not enough RAM or GHz under the hood. Reviews also indicate the TouchSmarts don’t have the same responsiveness as an Intuos tablet. I can’t imagine Wacom would let HP undercut its professional-grade tablets or the Cintiq - you can get a TouchSmart with a 22" screen for $1000. Is the TouchSmart “half as good” as the Cintiq which costs twice as much? Unless you live and die by Adobe Creative Suite, it probably is, but graphics pros will probably find much to quarrel over. The main deal-breaker is probably that they’re not amenable to being picked up and held in your lap like a pad of paper - too heavy and too many wires. Finally, keep in mind whether you’re dealing with a touch screen or a digitizer. The significant difference is that a digitizer will only respond when you touch it with the stylus. Touch screens will respond to your fingers, elbows, dangly bracelets, watch bands, etc. and will drive you completely mad. ETA: I just found a reference that the TouchSmart has 256 levels of sensitivity - significantly less than an Intuos or Cintiq. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/3 "2010-07-09T12:22:39Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > Anyone have a suggestion? I think Wacom is great, but their product is so overpriced. Before we can make suggestions, we need to know your purpose. Why do you want a touch-pad? Mouse replacement? Specific software? ---
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/4 "2010-07-09T13:10:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Before we can make suggestions, we need to know your purpose. Why do you want a touch-pad? Mouse replacement? Specific software? Mainly just for illustration. I thought it was obvious since I mentioned replacing my old Wacom. Sorry. I might just get an older Cintiq. Found an 18sx on ebay which is still a step up. But it has no buyout, and I don’t know how interested I will be if it exceeds $600. ---
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/5 "2010-07-09T13:26:12Z")
> **[Hack Mac Laptop to Be a Mac Tablet in 15 Minutes or DIY Cintiq](https://www.instructables.com/Hack-mac-laptop-to-be-a-mac-tablet/)** > > Hack Mac Laptop to Be a Mac Tablet in 15 Minutes or DIY Cintiq: I've had lots of questions from places where this has popped up:1. yes it is pressure sensitive2. it only works where my wacom sensor is... basically that white block in the video.3. i... One of those mods looks interesting. Seems almost too simple… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/6 "2010-07-09T13:37:29Z")
Given that you’re looking at touch-screens, would a decent screen and decent ordinary pad suffice? Indeed, if you get a screen and graphics card capable of 10-bit colour, you might find the results preferable. ---
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/7 "2010-07-09T14:29:23Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Given that you’re looking at touch-screens, would a decent screen and decent ordinary pad suffice? > > Indeed, if you get a screen and graphics card capable of 10-bit colour, you might find the results preferable. Not quite sure what you mean. Yes, I would like a good touch screen with good pressure levels (priority). Not sure what you mean by pad though. I already have an Intuos 2 12x12. It’s good, but I’ve been able to try a 21ux where my uncle works and there is no comparison. Being able to draw directly on the display wins every time. My graphics card is more than adequate (EVGA 8800GTX 768MB SLI x2). 10-bit color… I’m not sure what you mean again. If you’re talking about overall color-depth I’d want 24-bit. I do remember learning that most broadcasts and DVDs do 10-bit color, and per channel 32-bit displays actually only display 10-bits per channel. Something like that. Seems you are from the UK (coloUr) so I’m not if that’s a regional discrepancy. I’m actually not so concerned with color, because composition is most important to me. I can do color correction on my callibrated NEC FE2111SB-BK when the time comes. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/8 "2010-07-09T15:21:27Z")
I think the HP TouchSmart tm2t is the cheapest tablet PC currently available that has an active digitizer (i.e. Wacom style pen input). Here’s a review: > **[HP TouchSmart TM2 Review - Tablet PC Reviews by Mobile Tech Review](https://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/HP-TouchSmart-TM2.htm)** > > HP TouchSmart TM2 Tablet PC Review - MobileTechReview.com It screen isn’t as nice as a high-end tablet PC though. (The view angle is no better than a typical LCD display, which can be an issue when it’s lying flat on a desk or in your lap.) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/9 "2010-07-09T15:58:01Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > N10-bit color… I’m not sure what you mean again. If you’re talking about overall color-depth I’d want 24-bit. I do remember learning that most broadcasts and DVDs do 10-bit color, and per channel 32-bit displays actually only display 10-bits per channel. Something like that. Seems you are from the UK (coloUr) so I’m not if that’s a regional discrepancy. Yes, 10 bit colour is 10 bits per channel, for 30 bits overall. But given your other statements, I do agree that the Cintiq is probably the best for you. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/10 "2010-07-09T16:09:13Z")
For a pressure-sensitive, high-resolution display, I don’t think you’ve got any choice but Wacom: the other touch-screen displays are meant for fingers, and just don’t have the resolution (and usually no pressure sensitivity). Once you’re there, you get either tablet PC (usually too underpowered) or Cintiq. I’ve been looking for a cheaper way around this for years, and not found one. On the plus side, these things have been around for decades, so maybe the patents are close to expiring, and we can see some actual competition in this market. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/11 "2010-07-09T16:22:19Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > For a pressure-sensitive, high-resolution display, I don’t think you’ve got any choice but Wacom: the other touch-screen displays are meant for fingers, and just don’t have the resolution (and usually no pressure sensitivity). N-trig also makes digitizers for tablets; I don’t know who uses them though. HP used to use them on their tablet PCs, but I believe they switched back to Wacom. > [@](#): > > Once you’re there, you get either tablet PC (usually too underpowered) or Cintiq. There are some powerful tablet PCs now; the Lenovo x201t has a Core i7 processor for example. It costs a bit more than the Cintiq though, and I don’t know how good its pressure sensitivity is. ---
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/12 "2010-07-09T16:57:10Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > For a pressure-sensitive, high-resolution display, I don’t think you’ve got any choice but Wacom: the other touch-screen displays are meant for fingers, and just don’t have the resolution (and usually no pressure sensitivity). > > Once you’re there, you get either tablet PC (usually too underpowered) or Cintiq. I’ve been looking for a cheaper way around this for years, and not found one. > > On the plus side, these things have been around for decades, so maybe the patents are close to expiring, and we can see some actual competition in this market. > **[Electromagnetic digitizer and distortion-free LCD - Wacom Co., Ltd.](https://www.freepatentsonline.com/6906694.html)** > > \
An input/output device is disclosed that includes a digitizer with an LCD mounted thereon and a protective layer mounted directly on the LCD to minimize the parallax errors that hav Looks like 2022 will be the year. I might buy a cheap 15" LCD, buy a used Intuos 3 9x12, and make a DIY. It seems relatively simple to do. Can anyone recommend a good alternative brand for LCDs? I usually buy Samsung, NEC, or Sony when I buy LCDs. They stopped making 15" displays a while ago apparently and I can’t find anything good. If it comes down to it, I will probably buy this: [http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=ASLCD52V-BK](http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=ASLCD52V-BK) Also, I can get an Intuos 3 9x12 for about $200. So for about $340 I could potentially have a 15" Cintiq 😛 Even the old Cintiq 15X’s run about $400. And I believe they use Intuos 2 style technology. The NEC display is probably also superior to the 15X. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/13 "2010-07-09T17:08:37Z")
> [@nilum](#): > > If it comes down to it, I will probably buy this: > [http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=ASLCD52V-BK](http://hypermicro.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=ASLCD52V-BK) > … > > The NEC display is probably also superior to the 15X. I don’t think so. From that page: Horizontal Viewing Angle : 70° Vertical Viewing Angle : 55° Anyway if you’re willing to settle for a 15", why aren’t you considering the Cintiq 12? There isn’t a huge difference between 12" and 15". ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/14 "2010-07-09T18:01:21Z")
I use a Genius tablet. The only real difference, AFAIK, is that the pen needs its own batteries whereas the Wacom proprietary transponder tech lets them do away with these. The resolutions are pretty much of a muchness, and the pressure levels, ditto (1024 levels - although it’s like megapixels, it’s not how high, it’s what you do with it). And they’re\* a lot \*cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/15 "2010-07-09T19:32:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I use a Genius tablet. The only real difference, AFAIK, is that the pen needs its own batteries whereas the Wacom proprietary transponder tech lets them do away with these. The resolutions are pretty much of a muchness, and the pressure levels, ditto (1024 levels - although it’s like megapixels, it’s not how high, it’s what you do with it). And they’re\* a lot \*cheaper. That’s not the same thing at all. The Cintiqs are actual screens with the digitizer built in (so you see that you’re drawing under the pen like on paper). The Genius tablets, unless I’m missing something, are just entry tablets, closer to the Bamboo or Intuos than a Cintiq. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/16 "2010-07-09T20:59:50Z")
Can these things be used to input handwritten text? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/17 "2010-07-09T22:30:49Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Can these things be used to input handwritten text? Yes, assuming OS support (Modern Mac OS and Windows, not sure about Linux). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/18 "2010-07-09T22:41:09Z")
What do they do with a text once it’s in? Do you have the option of converting it to a word processor document? ---
**Author:** ![nilum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@nilum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nilum)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/19 "2010-07-09T23:25:33Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I don’t think so. From that page: > > Horizontal Viewing Angle : 70° > Vertical Viewing Angle : 55° > Anyway if you’re willing to settle for a 15", why aren’t you considering the Cintiq 12? There isn’t a huge difference between 12" and 15". A Cintiq 12 would cost me $700-$999. Also 15" area would be significantly larger: > **[Visual TV Size Comparison : 12 inch 16x10 display vs 15 inch 4x3 display](https://www.displaywars.com/12-inch-16x10-vs-15-inch-4x3)** > > Visual size comparison of a 12 inch 16x10 display vs 15 inch 4x3 display But you are right. The viewing angle is shitty; however, I did some more searching and found this: [http://www.planar.com/products/flatpanel\_monitors/pl1500m/#t-1](http://www.planar.com/products/flatpanel_monitors/pl1500m/#t-1) And it’s only $124: [http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250659065917&rvr\_id=&crlp=1\_263602\_263622&UA=%3F\*S%3F&GUID=b09c74061290a02653065ad6fff078cc&itemid=250659065917&ff4=263602\_263622#ht\_2112wt\_1137](http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250659065917&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*S%3F&GUID=b09c74061290a02653065ad6fff078cc&itemid=250659065917&ff4=263602_263622#ht_2112wt_1137) – > [@](#): > > That’s not the same thing at all. The Cintiqs are actual screens with the digitizer built in (so you see that you’re drawing under the pen like on paper). The Genius tablets, unless I’m missing something, are just entry tablets, closer to the Bamboo or Intuos than a Cintiq. I think he may have been referring to my DIY build, but not sure. Anyway, the added weight in the pens is a drag (subtle pun :P). Still it’s something to consider for a DIY. [http://www.geniustablet.com/p-10362-PenSketch-9x12ke](http://www.geniustablet.com/p-10362-PenSketch-9x12ke) a 15" Digitizer with these specs: > **[Pardon Our Interruption...](https://www.ebay.com/splashui/challenge?ap=1&appName=orch&ru=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F220608111684%3Fcmd%3DViewItem%26pt%3DLH_DefaultDomain_0%26hash%3Ditem335d44a444&iid=cb48a46f-41fe-477a-b9aa-0a133bd9bf62&iim=fMTg0LjO&iia=HsEwNS45II&iiz=TgFOS4xMDA*Lud)** Very cheap @ $68, but only 2000 LPI vs the 5080 of a Wacom Inutos 3. Still, I wonder how much of a difference it makes considering there are only 85 lines of resolution per inch on a 15" display (768p/9"). So at $192 I could have a DIY 15" Cintiq. Here are some comparisons I made: > **[Google Sheets: Sign-in](https://accounts.google.com/v3/signin/identifier?continue=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd%2F1897RSU75jwNWjdlgXWT4FOXC9-ancYMWd-u1WzP6A4c%2Fedit%3Fhl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26authkey%3DCKTWiYkE&dsh=S169704580%3A1764224533029672&followup=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd%2F1897RSU75jwNWjdlgXWT4FOXC9-ancYMWd-u1WzP6A4c%2Fedit%3Fhl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26authkey%3DCKTWiYkE&hl=en&ifkv=ARESoU0_s8AHgmC_talQeQZcK-bM5WT6ycWnjdIxOM1v8aDfQsxlR3SQQHf6tO9N7ovHmoi5g3ZC<mpl=sheets&osid=1&passive=1209600&service=wise&flowName=GlifWebSignIn&flowEntry=ServiceLogin)** > > Access Google Sheets with a personal Google account or Google Workspace account (for business use). ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076/20 "2010-07-10T02:34:14Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > What do they do with a text once it’s in? Do you have the option of converting it to a word processor document? They can either leave it as “ink” (i.e. a graphic of the text you write), or translate it to actual text via handwriting recognition of variable accuracy. In the latter case, you can use it anywhere you could use a keyboard (word processor, web form, dialog entry, whatever). It sounds neater than it is – for most people, handwriting accuracy will be low enough that it’s not practical for long data entry. There are options that can make it better (a mode where you write letters one per “square,” for example), and on Windows the programmer can assist by “hinting” what they’re looking for, but it’s still a lot slower than typing for almost everybody. (It does allow a keyboad-free environment for things like slate tablet PC’s, though, which are nice for artists and a few other situations where text data entry is rarer than other uses). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternative-to-wacom-cintiq/546076.md?page=2)